Live data from Hacker News

Email immutability matters more in a world with AI

fastmail.com

91–100 of 115 posts

Re: Email immutability matters more in a world with AI

#91
post #83
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When it's a silly marketing email - sure. But you'd be surprised how hard you need to work as a sender to ensure that your content will render correctly if your business is actually to deliver information via email. Remote content is ignored by default by almost all modern email clients (since developers got sneaky and started using it for tracking) so a good email with rich content is usually embedding all that cont…

You don't have to work hard at all if you send plain text.

I'm not certain if it still exists this way since I've been removed from the actual email templates for a while - but when I originally wrote them for my company they were multi-format supporting with the plaintext chunk as the lead portion - after that came the fancy HTML version with all the bells and whistles that the business required.

Did anyone ever read the plaintext version of the email outside our company? Probably not - but it was super useful for testing that the content was correct by dumping the full message contents to console.

Would I have been applauded for only providing customers with a plain text email? Nah, you need a really niche audience to appreciate that - I love that audience, but that audience isn't our customer base unfortunately.

The actual mechanics of email formatting are quite simple (it basically hasn't changed at all in 50+ years) so it can be quite straightforward - it just gets difficult when you try and get fancy.

Re: Email immutability matters more in a world with AI

#94
post #2

> The world is changing, and we need to adapt and understand it. fastmail: read my lips: I pay you because you offer a traditional email service if you add a single AI feature I will return to self hosting

This is a surprisingly aggressive reaction after reading a blog post asserting that said company will NOT go in that direction.

Re: Email immutability matters more in a world with AI

#95
post #11
post #2

> The world is changing, and we need to adapt and understand it. fastmail: read my lips: I pay you because you offer a traditional email service if you add a single AI feature I will return to self hosting

The entire article is about protecting against AI, and their internal policy on AI use. No new features mentioned.

it doesn't hurt to dispel the illusion that "existing product plus AI equals more money"

Re: Email immutability matters more in a world with AI

#96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with this approach is that it is easily bypassed. Simply point your camera at a high quality monitor playing an AI generated video, and there you go, and authenticated AI video. In the future, video evidence is going to be as convincing as it was for 99.9999...% of human history. We survived with out it in the past. We'll survive without it in the future.

I doubt it will be that easy to bypass. A fake would still have to withstand pixel-level analysis on the level of methods that already detect tampering in regular video. For one thing, that will have to be a very high quality monitor indeed to leave no detectable trace of e.g. moire patterns.

A fake doesn’t need to be perfect to be effective, it just needs to fool enough people. Most posts won’t (and couldn’t ever) be scrutinised at that level.

Re: Email immutability matters more in a world with AI

#97

The immutability of documentation tech matters more in a world with AI. The cameras used to document "news" will need to be watermarked, fingerprinted and authenticated, like what Canon and Nikon are already doing (and which AFP has already adopted). It may have seemed gimmicky at first, but in a year or two, you'll probably only be able to trust visuals from companies that do this (wire agencies like AFP, AP and Reu…

> I can imagine a world where, if you film a protest through the Instagram app, you'd get some kind of "this is real" badge on it

On Instagram? The website owned by that guy who loves AI slop and wants to fill your feed with it? That Instagram? Yeah, doesn’t seem likely.

https://techcrunch.com/2025/09/25/meta-launches-vibes-a-shor...

https://fortune.com/2024/10/30/mark-zuckerberg-ai-generated-...

https://futurism.com/zuckerberg-lonely-friends-create-ai

Re: Email immutability matters more in a world with AI

#98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gmail keeps editing mails. They have a concept of "dynamic emails" people can send now. Like if you get a mail notification about something in Docs, they will keep updating the mail in your inbox together with modified / added comments in the document. Absolutely bonkers. "Because of the dynamic nature of AMP messages, the content displayed in Gmail messages can change as time passes." https://support.google.com/a/an…

Microsoft has this now too with Loop components. If you put any text content around it that doesn't change, but the "Loop" component is a live doc and will update on the email client's end of the remote doc changes.

Low key: Loop is actually great. I think it's the first thing I've used that's captured the dream of what Google Wave wanted to be

Re: Email immutability matters more in a world with AI

#99

Your own emails are immutable, if you trust nobody's modified your copy. But proving to others that an email hasn't been modified is a more difficult task. As I understand it, you'd need to retain DKIM keys for the signing server, to check that historical DKIM signatures verify correctly and the old message was not forged or altered. Are DKIM signing keys issued in some kind of Certificate Transparency log, where you…

people are trying to do the opposite - publish DKIM private keys regularly so everyone knows that old DKIM signatures can be forged, so that they can't be used against you.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25113482 Ok Google: please publish your DKIM secret keys (2020-11-16, 583 points, 749 comments)

Re: Email immutability matters more in a world with AI

#100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gmail keeps editing mails. They have a concept of "dynamic emails" people can send now. Like if you get a mail notification about something in Docs, they will keep updating the mail in your inbox together with modified / added comments in the document. Absolutely bonkers. "Because of the dynamic nature of AMP messages, the content displayed in Gmail messages can change as time passes." https://support.google.com/a/an…

Jesus, I had no idea :-(

Damn, that must be why they keep making it harder and harder for independently run mailing lists to deliver to gmail users.
Post reply on HN