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An opinionated critique of Duolingo

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Re: An opinionated critique of Duolingo

#91

Post by sweetjuly »

fny wrote: post #57

Duolingo and many other apps avoid the hardest and most essential skill: translating from your language to the other. It's often easy to guess what words mean especially with the help of cognates and other similarities between languages. 99% of Duolingo mobile is like this. Even when you see words in your language first, your task is to tap the presented foreigin words in order. You'll never learn to speak this way.…

> avoid the hardest and most essential skill: translating from your language to the other.

The hardest and most essential skill, second only to: not translating from your language to the other :)

(or maybe it should be the other way around; translating is useful but a really hard crutch to kick. Keeping it around will make it hard to keep up while speaking/listening and make reading a slog)

Re: An opinionated critique of Duolingo

#92

Post by jimbokun »

duothrowaway99 wrote: post #25

Both of my parents are teachers of a European language. They both have phd's in linguistics, and rate very highly with students (who basically adore them). All of this context to say that not once has anyone using Duolingo been able to "test out" of the first ("101") class that they teach. Duolingo self-learners come in with a very unequal mix of vocabulary and... not much else. Unable to use declension properly [0],…

> spend time in a country where the language is spoken and force themselves into situations where they "have" to speak, etc.

In the end this is the only one that matters.

You can do things before going to that country that will help. But you'll never be close to fluent without taking that final step.

Re: An opinionated critique of Duolingo

#93

Post by sandinmyjoints »

dougdonohoe wrote: post #23

I can relate to this post - great thoughts! I took Spanish in high school and college, so had a rudimentary understanding of verb tenses and some vocabulary. Before I walked the Camino de Santiago el Norte (45+ days in Spain), I used Duolingo to brush up on my Spanish. It helped my reading most, my speaking a fair amount and my listening/conversation the least. I was able to ask questions, but was often flummoxed at…

Curious if you have ever heard of/tried https://www.spanishdict.com/learn?

Re: An opinionated critique of Duolingo

#94

Post by jnsie »

I think it's important for those responding about their Duolingo experience to include the tier that they are using. Specifically, I wonder if the conversations with AI, and the "explain this" feature in Duolingo Max change outcomes? I'm new to Duolingo, chose the max tier, and feel that I'm learning quite a bit specifically because I am having simple conversations in French daily (albeit with an AI that seems to me to have questionable hearing at times). I haven't used it long enough to provide insight or even judge the platform, but for those using the more expensive tier(s) I wonder your thoughts...

Re: An opinionated critique of Duolingo

#95

Post by shermantanktop »

gs17 wrote: post #13
creaktive wrote: post #7

Like I always say to my friends & family who are complaining about Duolingo not really teaching anything: it beats doomscrolling, what else do you want?

That's a very, very low bar though.

It’s a bar that every Duolingo user is hopping over while a bunch of procrastinators are making excuses about why they haven’t started yet.

Duolingo is not a complete solution and I don’t think they or anyone else claims that it is. What it solves fantastically well is the zero-to-habit transition.

Re: An opinionated critique of Duolingo

#97

Post by mynameisash »

duothrowaway99 wrote: post #25

Both of my parents are teachers of a European language. They both have phd's in linguistics, and rate very highly with students (who basically adore them). All of this context to say that not once has anyone using Duolingo been able to "test out" of the first ("101") class that they teach. Duolingo self-learners come in with a very unequal mix of vocabulary and... not much else. Unable to use declension properly [0],…

> keep yourself motivated

As an entertainment device, Duolingo is fine. I used it to start my French journey, not truly appreciating the INCREDIBLE difficulty and quantity of effort required. Fortunately for me, I was and still am super curious about languages, and I really want to learn.

I speak French now at roughly a B2 level. When I travel to la Francophonie, I get by, and people are usually reasonably impressed by my level (or at least are humoring me, which is fine). But my friends and family who have seen me hold conversations in French, as impressed as they may be, would never put in the amount of effort that I have.

Re: An opinionated critique of Duolingo

#98

Post by vel0city »

duothrowaway99 wrote: post #62
KPGv2 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> gamified learning vs "academic" learning, immersion by moving to a country, I think it's not unreasonable to point out that, at least for Americans (I'm guessing the largest user base of Duolingo), of the three options you listed, one costs tens of thousands of dollars for us (academic instruction), and the other is virtually impossible to do because we aren't part of a bloc of nations with border freedom (immersio…

There are a number of institutes/colleges dedicated to language learning in the US: Alliance Française [0], Goethe institute [1] with multiple satellite offices around the country, all offering language classes for a few hundred dollars. There are a multitude, nay - infinite! number of online classes with teachers who will use "traditional", textbook-based approaches. [2] Young Americans regularly go for 1-2-3 month…

> Young Americans regularly go for 1-2-3 month trips to Italy, France, Germany, etc

Its really not that common outside of really wealthy people. Only 50% or so Americans under 30 years old even have a passport, much less spend months overseas. And that's a percentage that has gone way up over the years. In fact, its probably more common to find people that have barely even left the same state than have traveled in Europe, especially so for spending any appreciable amount of time in any particular part of Europe.

https://today.yougov.com/travel/articles/46028-adults-under-...

Re: An opinionated critique of Duolingo

#99

Post by blktiger »

mithr wrote: post #75

I agree with some aspects, and think the author perhaps misunderstood some others. > If I collect 100 XP, what does it mean for my language skills? For that matter, why do I collect extra XP when I receive a potion? Can the XP I collect be used in a way to carefully guide me towards the specific language skills I would explore next? Using XP to guide the user towards a particular path is an idea, but it's just not on…

For me I mostly use Duolingo as a mechanism to encourage myself to spend time learning each day. I find that it's helpful for reviewing a lot of basic vocabulary, but I typically supplement it with other stuff (listening to music, watching shows, youtube language channels, AI conversations, etc). I find I make the most progress when I choose to do things that are challenging which Duolingo really is not.

Re: An opinionated critique of Duolingo

#100

Post by theshrike79 »

jghn wrote: post #38
creaktive wrote: post #7

Like I always say to my friends & family who are complaining about Duolingo not really teaching anything: it beats doomscrolling, what else do you want?

People just need to properly set expectations. I've been using Duolingo for about 15 mins per day on average for a few years now. What I've found is that my reading skills are actually pretty good (roughly A2/B1 level), for instance I can open up a Spanish language subreddit and mostly make out what's going on. My listening is rudimentary at best, I can generally have a vague idea of what people are talking about if…

TBH native Spanish speakers talk FAST. Like fast-fast.
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