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Thoughts on Mechanical Keyboards and the ZSA Moonlander

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Re: Thoughts on Mechanical Keyboards and the ZSA Moonlander

#91

Post by mickeyp »

danpalmer wrote: post #80

> here are my thoughts on ... you should literally buy any mechanical keyboard ... with programmable firmware Funnily enough, the Moonlander was not this for me. It's programmable, but the round-trip time for programming meant that I didn't modify it often, and only modified it in significant ways, which meant I'd then forget key combinations immediately. This was particularly prevalent for anything where you have to…

> I switched from a Moonlander to a UHK, and the programming time is ~instant. You click flash and in 1-2 seconds it's done. For the Moonlander you have to download the firmware, find the file, drag and drop onto the flashing tool, and wait 10+ seconds. It's amazing how much of a difference that made for me.

Actually I point out you can use webusb to flash it (if you use Chrome) further down ...

Re: Thoughts on Mechanical Keyboards and the ZSA Moonlander

#92

Post by scuff3d »

cosmic_cheese wrote: post #76
Twey wrote: post #73

> proponents of mechanical keyboards say you need fewer keys than a regular keyboard, for _reasons_ That's a bit of a generalization. Mechanical keyboards like the Hyper7 exist that have enough for even the most key-hungry typist. If you want an ergonomic mechanical keyboard with many keys there are also some of those out there, like the Kinesis line or the Glove80. That said, one thing people mean by ‘ergonomic’ is…

There are plenty of folks in the community who land somewhere in the middle, too. 60%/65% are all pretty popular and don't go off the deep end in cutting down keys. I'm personally partial to the HHKB layout, which is like 60% with inspiration from boards associated with the original Mac and with old UNIX boxes.

I got a 75% Keychron a few years ago. Really like it, but I've been considering finding a more portable 65%. The Keychron is great but it's pretty heavy so it's annoying to carry around. Any suggestions?

Re: Thoughts on Mechanical Keyboards and the ZSA Moonlander

#93

Post by MichaelDickens »

Arrowmaster wrote: post #35
waynesonfire wrote: post #23

Those thumbs are doing a lot of work. Can't imagine that being ergonomic.

Thumbs are one of your stronger fingers. In contrast the pinky is by far the weakest but we have dedicated it to almost every modifier and outlying key. I currently use an Elora from SplitKB so I can't speak to the Moonlanders thumb cluster, but if you find one you like it's a massive difference in how much usage you can get out of your thumbs while typing.

For me the biggest benefit of thumb keys isn't finger strength, it's the fact that the thumb is separated from the rest of the hand. It's really easy to hit a thumb key while hitting any other key on the "main" part of the keyboard. Whereas on a traditional keyboard, typing something like shift-T or ctrl-R requires stretching out your hand.

Re: Thoughts on Mechanical Keyboards and the ZSA Moonlander

#94

Post by qwerpy »

grepex wrote: post #84
qwerpy wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I completely agree. Moonlander would be perfect with a F key row and dedicated modifier keys. The purists will sneer, but they could always take off the keycaps and switches if they want to show off how minimal they are. I don't spend all my time in vim, my job is mostly emails and docs now. Muscle memory decays for all the fancy chords/layers/macros/etc and I don't have infinite time to spend tweaking keyboard layou…

I added a numeric layer where my left thumb activates the layer key and the numbers are arranged like a numpad on my right half. The dedicated number keys at the top row are now f keys. Highly recommend

Interesting idea. Thanks

Re: Thoughts on Mechanical Keyboards and the ZSA Moonlander

#95

Post by nothrabannosir »

DanHulton wrote: post #79
Jcampuzano2 wrote: post #8

I started having RSI issues 2 years ago, what a way to welcome me to my 30s. It was excruciatingly painful just getting through a workday even with plenty of breaks. I didn't care for building my own keyboard I literally just wanted something to help me not be in pain no matter how weird it looked. I've ended up on a Kinesis advantage 360 pro after spending thousands of dollars on keyboards because I needed something…

As an FYI, I had a similar issue and tried a whole lot of things, including different mechanical keyboards, with which I had a variety of successes and failures. But ultimately what REALLY helped was going to physiotherapy and identifying muscle groups in my back that were weak, causing me to sit weird and support my arms with muscles in my shoulders that weren't designed for that. And because all of this is connecte…

I have a similar story. Bought a Kinesis advantage II at the time and it provided at best some solace. Started lifting weights and all pain was completely gone within two weeks.

Not saying it will work for others but it’s at least worth trying.

PS I ended up sticking with the kinesis, now on a 360 pro. Hands down the best keyboard I’ve ever seen or used. I recommend both deadlifts and kinesis :)

Re: Thoughts on Mechanical Keyboards and the ZSA Moonlander

#96

Post by squigz »

danpalmer wrote: post #80

> here are my thoughts on ... you should literally buy any mechanical keyboard ... with programmable firmware Funnily enough, the Moonlander was not this for me. It's programmable, but the round-trip time for programming meant that I didn't modify it often, and only modified it in significant ways, which meant I'd then forget key combinations immediately. This was particularly prevalent for anything where you have to…

Yeah, unfortunately I have to agree with you. It's just enough friction in flashing that I rarely do it.

Re: Thoughts on Mechanical Keyboards and the ZSA Moonlander

#97

Post by Mindless2112 »

randlet wrote: post #12
dotancohen wrote: post #4

All I want is a quality split mechanical keyboard with Function keys. I use an IDE all day, I don't want to pull quadruple buckies every time I debug. The Matias Ergo Pro is almost perfect, but I had two of them and they both failed within one year. I had one of each switch type (low force and regular) - both were missing some button presses and repeating other button presses.

Kinesis Freestyle Pro? I've got the non mechanical version (mechanical wasn't available when I purchased) and it's held up for many years. It's a great keyboard IMO.

The Freestyle Pro is almost a good keyboard. The Esc and function keys are all offset to the left by one key compared to a standard layout, which drove me nuts. I have a Freestyle Edge RGB now, which I like much better. (Though I replaced the wrist rests with some from Goldtouch.)

Re: Thoughts on Mechanical Keyboards and the ZSA Moonlander

#98

Post by mkozlows »

dotancohen wrote: post #20
kyeb wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find one modifier plus a home-row key to be much more comfortable than reaching several rows up for an F-key. The author's whole point here is that QMK (or ZMK, which I use) lets you customize it to exactly your own needs!

But then many keyboard shortcuts require four keys to be depressed all at once. Just for an example off the top of my head, in JetBrains IDEs the shortcut for hiding all tools is Ctrl-Shift-F12.

So a) that seems like a nightmare to me no matter what keyboard I'm on, but b) if you have frequently-used shortcuts that are a pita to get to, you can put them on a layer where you just use them.

Like, I legitimately don't know anymore how you take a screenshot on MacOS, but I know that I hit the modifier key and then this one other key, and that takes a screenshot. Also don't know what you press to move from virtual screen to virtual screen, but mod-m and mod-comma go left and right for me. And in a browser, mod-s and mod-f do ctrl-shift-tab and ctrl-tab.

It's a terrible idea to do this for rarely-used shortcuts, as you'll never remember them; but for ones you use frequently, it's better-than-native, because you can put them on convenient keys that are easy to hit, rather than whatever contortions you'd need to do to hit Ctrl-Shift-F12.

Re: Thoughts on Mechanical Keyboards and the ZSA Moonlander

#99

Post by kstrauser »

Twey wrote: post #73

> proponents of mechanical keyboards say you need fewer keys than a regular keyboard, for _reasons_ That's a bit of a generalization. Mechanical keyboards like the Hyper7 exist that have enough for even the most key-hungry typist. If you want an ergonomic mechanical keyboard with many keys there are also some of those out there, like the Kinesis line or the Glove80. That said, one thing people mean by ‘ergonomic’ is…

My parents sent me to years of piano lessons before I ever touched a computer keyboard, and my typing reflects it. I don't move my wrist. I move my entire hand. This drove my high school typing teacher nuts, but I was the fastest in class by a wide margin so he didn't push back too hard.

I've tried traditional home-row typing but I just can't do it. And after all these years, my wrists still don't hurt at all. I can't prove that there's a connection, but I strongly suspect it.

Re: Thoughts on Mechanical Keyboards and the ZSA Moonlander

#100

Post by mkozlows »

dotancohen wrote: post #28
UltraSane wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can get a QMK keyboard and create a function key layer.

That sounds a lot more like a keyboard hobby, than a keyboard.

It is! If you want a keyboard that you never think about, a programmable wacky layout keyboard is not for you.

But if you use your keyboard a lot, keyboard hobbyism can be rewarding to a certain point.

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