Live data from Hacker News

Rights groups urge UK PM Starmer to abandon plans for mandatory digital ID

bigbrotherwatch.org.uk

91–100 of 152 posts

Re: Rights groups urge UK PM Starmer to abandon plans for mandatory digital ID

#91
post #31

Digital ID works great in the nordic countries and doubtless elsewhere.

It works. No need to call it great. Just the other month 35.000 danes lost access to their digital id because their phones are running too old android. There are edge cases where people get locked out of the system without access to public services, and why it is resolvable it can result in missed benefits and inturn missed rent payments. I myself have experienced being between housing, and wasn't able to access my d…

[deleted]

Re: Rights groups urge UK PM Starmer to abandon plans for mandatory digital ID

#93
At this point, the benefits of an official governmental digital ID system exceed the drawbacks; the argument against digital identity documents died a long time ago with the total loss of privacy due to the amalgamation of all existing systems combined with the ubiquitous tracking of physical and online presences; that horse has bolted, and trying (and failing) to shut the stable door now won't help.

The current battle for digital personal rights is the right to private communication and data storage, and thanks to encryption and open source software, that one's not lost yet.

Re: Rights groups urge UK PM Starmer to abandon plans for mandatory digital ID

#94

At this point, the benefits of an official governmental digital ID system exceed the drawbacks; the argument against digital identity documents died a long time ago with the total loss of privacy due to the amalgamation of all existing systems combined with the ubiquitous tracking of physical and online presences; that horse has bolted, and trying (and failing) to shut the stable door now won't help. The current batt…

Reality is that digital ID (and far more) is owned by American corporations already. A digital ID (but not a physical card) may be the least worst option.

Re: Rights groups urge UK PM Starmer to abandon plans for mandatory digital ID

#95

OTOH - partly playing devil's advocate here - I'm dealing with several bank and inheritance-related issues in the UK from my home in Sweden now, and needing to do pretty much ANYTHING with an authority in the UK feels like stepping back into the 17th century. There's a constant requirement for paperwork to prove who I am - always in the form of items that are 100% digital nowadays in the Nordic countries (like a "uti…

I too not long ago went through the inheritance gunk with the UK.

> These then need to be 'notarized' by a legal person - with seals and embossed stamps before they can be used to identify me. It's medieval.

My experience of this was they (the insurance/solicitors) were just being obstructionist for fun, because when confronted with the requested notarized documents they kept moving the goalposts around, and only a threat to withdraw business from them on other fronts made them snap out of it.

Re: Rights groups urge UK PM Starmer to abandon plans for mandatory digital ID

#96
post #2

Why is the UK politics scene so focused on digital ID? Blair first proposed it and I feel like I've heard about it continually since with no progress. Different justifications every time too

The UK has a bunch of deeply divided issues: 40% want lower house prices and rents (tenants and would be buyers) and 40% want higher house prices and rents (landlords and owners). The same is true for taxes and immigration and crime/justice and welfare etc. So governments are desperate NOT to do anything on most issues. And they are desperate to do SOMETHING (as a distraction) on issues seen as more neutral and less…

>40% want lower house prices and rents (tenants and would be buyers) and 40% want higher house prices and rents (landlords and owners).

I think it is more that the electorate and their agents don't know how (or disagree on how) to keep housing affordable or more precisely don't know how to avoid passing laws and regulations that have the unintended effect of raising the cost of housing.

Re: Rights groups urge UK PM Starmer to abandon plans for mandatory digital ID

#97

The Swiss are voting again for the e-ID this weekend. It is likely to pass this time although there are still some issues. The implementation of the self custody wallet is open source: https://github.com/swiyu-admin-ch . What is missing is the verification system used to issue the ID which is not open at this time and the law is vague on who gets to ask for the ID. These two things still need to be settled.

Crucial point on this though: it isn't going to be mandatory. Swiss ID cards are not mandatory either although in practice not having one can be inconvenient.

Next year Swiss ID cards will come in two variants: biometric if you want to travel around the EU and existing plastic card if you just want to have it for Switzerland.

So you can even go so far as to opt out of biometrics providing you don't intend to travel internationally.

Re: Rights groups urge UK PM Starmer to abandon plans for mandatory digital ID

#98
post #2

Why is the UK politics scene so focused on digital ID? Blair first proposed it and I feel like I've heard about it continually since with no progress. Different justifications every time too

The real question is why do all UK politicians, no matter their party, hate people so much?

Because they have to choose between liking people and making themselves/their friends rich, and they always pick the latter.

Re: Rights groups urge UK PM Starmer to abandon plans for mandatory digital ID

#99
For me the objections in the UK is not really about the principle (although there are always going to be some privacy/liberty/etc. concerns in that sense), but about the likely implementation.

If we could be assured that whatever was put in place was genuinely privacy/security focused, had open and transparent governance, and wasn't susceptible to capture by corporations/other powerful actors, I suspect many people wouldn't be too bothered. But that's not really the offer, it never is with public IT infrastructure in the UK. The likelihood is that it would be farmed out to one more private corporations to build and maintain, generally for a lowest bid, and overseen by people without sufficient expertise to avert many/any of the potential harms from a poor implementation.

There are good ways to do things like this: public ownership, open governance, security/privacy baked in, all based on a reflective national conversation about trade-offs and the valid fears that many have. What people don't trust is not really the concept of ID cards, it is instead the track record of this and previous governments with both IT and privacy impacting legislation, and even more so the potential inclinations of future governments, particularly at a time when far-right parties are floating ideas like mass deportation of people legally entitled to be here.

Digital ID and a free society are not inherently opposed, but there is no sign that this or other administrations are sufficiently interested in, or aware of, the complexities involved to produce anything other than a semi-permanent disaster.

Re: Rights groups urge UK PM Starmer to abandon plans for mandatory digital ID

#100

Can anyone explain why this is a bad thing? All I hear about this is conspiracy theories or anti-government rhetoric but never a clear reason to why this is bad. I can't see a reason considering all of the benefits it can bring, and similar things have been rolled out across Nordic countries.

No. The onus isn't on anyone to explain why it's bad
Post reply on HN