At these time scales, major terraforming projects become viable, from building large sunshades in orbit to one near Earth-Sun L1 (balancing light pressure and gravity, it would be closer to the Sun than L1), to even raising Earth’s orbit through a fleet of gravity tugs. Venus would be an excellent case for a planet-sized sunshade, btw, as well as a solar wind magnetic lens to replace lost hydrogen and make liquid water as the planet cools. The latter could be useful for Mars.
Why is Venus hell and Earth an Eden?
91–100 of 358 posts
Re: Why is Venus hell and Earth an Eden?
#92Earlier quoted context omitted.
Agree. But my understanding is the main idea is Mars is supposed to be a "backup" for humanity in the event of a very-low-probability catastrophic event on earth (total nuclear war, solar flare, meteorite collision). In our lifetimes, unlikely. Over the next 1 million years? Maybe.
If humanity develops the need for "burner planets" then maybe we don't deserve to expand past our solar system...
Read about the great oxidation event other commenters have mentioned. Biology doesn't so much care about an ideal of balance.
Our beloved natural balanced ecosystems are just an artifact of the fact that unbalanced systems change until they reach some equilibrium.
Re: Why is Venus hell and Earth an Eden?
#93> For a time, the mantle would get hotter, since the shell around it would trap heat generated by radioactively decaying compounds inside it. As heat accumulates in the interior, the Earth in Kane’s simulations would experience an uptick in volcanism lasting for about 15 million years. That totally surprised to me. I had no idea radioactive decay played such a role for earth. It turns out I must have fallen sleep in…
Dually: geothermal energy installations (& volcanism) release much more than simply energy into the biosphere
https://www.ntanet.net/hot-rocks-radioactive-waste-radon-fro...
You are welcome to consider that as a matter of hormesis and resources, of course
Re: Why is Venus hell and Earth an Eden?
#94The Moon, gently stirring and moving the inner core like oatmeal.
And keeping the axis of rotation consistent - and keeping the day length short and consistent.
Re: Why is Venus hell and Earth an Eden?
#95Earlier quoted context omitted.
Thinking about wild scenarios is fun and sometimes even prudent. But acting on it at this point is tragic premature optimization. Musk isn't a stupid person so I have to think in his heart he knows his story is more about PR and being seen as a visionary as something that will actually be done in the next thousand or ten thousand years. Even if there is some climate catastrophe that causes 99% of the population to di…
The crazy ones are the ones that get sh*t done. Musk was initially written off initially as crazy for every one of his successful business ventures. And it's his money to spend as he sees fit.
Walter, I never said he couldn't spend his money how he wants, so that really isn't a counter argument to what I was claiming. Personally, I think most people (Musk is just one) who thinks terraforming Mars is realistic have read too much science fiction and are more enamored of the cool Robinson Crusoe aspect more than it would really serve any purpose.
As for "every one" of his successful business ventures being called crazy, the first one was a dot-com online map of businesses in a given city. Did people say that was crazy? His next venture ended up getting acquired by Paypal, was that considered a crazy business? He invested in/took over Tesla -- I don't know if it was considered crazy or not at the time. SpaceX obviously is a great success. The brain control company -- we'll see. Grok -- nobody called that a crazy idea. Some of his other ventures, like hyperloop and the boring company, do seem more crazy but those escape your claim because they are in fact not successful. His solar roof company wasn't crazy, but it also isn't a success.
In short, Musk has no doubt had great successes, but there is no need to alter history to claim that at every turn he broke new ground when everyone else said it was crazy or impossible.
Re: Why is Venus hell and Earth an Eden?
#96The funny thing is that an oxygen-rich environment is a hell-hole! Oxygen is insanely reactive and will corrode anything. Even early life on earth found oxygen toxic. It was released as a waste product by early life and they were so successful that all that oxygen accumulated resulting in the Great Oxidation Event ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Oxidation_Event ). That likely resulted in many species going exti…
I hope humans are like Cyanobacteria in that in destroying the environment we create the substrate for something grander.
Re: Why is Venus hell and Earth an Eden?
#97Earlier quoted context omitted.
I didn't think reasonable really has a definition here. The rendezvous with these comets will take centuries or millennia even if we can get out there and kick them the right way (which is much harder than arranging a miss). Only then do we start terraforming, which takes thousands/millions of years in addition. Who/whatever we're preparing the planet for probably wouldn't be "people" anymore. :)
> Only then do we start terraforming, which takes thousands/millions of years in addition The methods we could realistically launch into in our lifetimes would take thousands of years, not millions (but also not hundreds) [1]. Projects of these timescales have precedent in human history, usually with a healthy dose of religious zeal. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terraforming_of_Mars
My impression was that pulverized rock/iron is not actually "soil", so after forming the atmosphere you need lengthy biochemical processes playing out on the surface. I admit though, I don't know too much about this.
Re: Why is Venus hell and Earth an Eden?
#98Earlier quoted context omitted.
I’m of the opinion we’ll just do massive structures in space, lifting out of a gravity well just doesn’t make sense, if you can manufacture in space and we know there is a tonne of resources off plant in the solar system I don’t see why terraforming a plant is the smart play.
That makes sense, but it can easily take a century to get that production ready. Meanwhile, SpaceX is preparing to start prepping Mars colonization in a few years. I know, Elon's timelines always break. But his insane goals are also always reached after considerable delays.
My cat always comes when it's called. Not right away though.
Re: Why is Venus hell and Earth an Eden?
#99Earlier quoted context omitted.
Without tectonics, is terraforming Mars even possible as a long term solution? This "Mars colonization" strategy seems like a pipe dream, no?
The lack of tectonics would only be a problem if you want your terraforming to be 'one and done'. If you admit that terraforming, even after it's 'done', will require an ongoing maintenance effort, it's simple (but not easy). Eg you can use satellites to spin up an artificial magnetic field to shield against solar wind. However, I suspect terraforming planets is a waste. Far more bang for your buck to build habitats…
The Moon has zones like you describe on Mercury, and is a lot closer to colonize. Lack of large magnetic field probably won’t matter as terraforming either is hopeless.
Re: Why is Venus hell and Earth an Eden?
#100Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.