University is what >you< make of it. If you don’t like it, you have the choice to not go.
Universities should be more than toll gates
91–100 of 148 posts
Re: Universities should be more than toll gates
#92I am always astonished by the range of people who claim their college degree was useless, citing rote memorization and bad classes. I had an entirely different experience and so did most people I know. University gave me the opportunity to talk to world-class researchers during office hours, to discuss ideas with my peers and have them either validated or critiqued by experts. Sure, all the information is available o…
> or just didn’t take advantage of the opportunities presented to them.
It's this. Most undergraduate students do not go to office hours, try to get to know their instructors, ask follow-up questions, pursue independent research, or do anything approaching "apprenticeship". Most American students matriculate into college/uni not even having ingrained behaviors that make any of these things obvious or approachable, so yes, it's understandable why many would consider higher ed the same as secondary ed: rote memorization and "bad" classes.
Re: Universities should be more than toll gates
#93The university system is a titanic waste of resources. Let's switch to a trusted testing system. Basically, have a thorough knowledge and skill test for any career (doctor, engineer, lawyer, etc) that anyone can pay to take and pass.
Re: Universities should be more than toll gates
#94Earlier quoted context omitted.
There is a difference between learning about things that you find interesting at your own pace, and learning about things that interest other people with tight deadlines. Even if I enjoy learning, there were absolutely courses that were just a waste of time.
> Even if I enjoy learning, there were absolutely courses that were just a waste of time. My university experience is somewhat different, and I believe whether this holds true or not depends a lot on the degree course: - In mathematics, there are barely any "filler courses". Basically all of them were interesting in their own right (even though because of your own interests, you will likely find some more exciting th…
I suspect even many math majors probably believe "general ed" required classes to be a waste of time. Point well taken, though: there are some subjects that do not lend themselves to editorializing or opinion. I majored in history & comparative religion as an undergrad and most of my lower level courses I'd consider to be "fact retention" efforts. Lots of reading, but not a lot of analysis or synthesis. I took mostly graduate level courses because of this for most of my last two years (and this was at a top 5 public university).
Re: Universities should be more than toll gates
#95I am always astonished by the range of people who claim their college degree was useless, citing rote memorization and bad classes. I had an entirely different experience and so did most people I know. University gave me the opportunity to talk to world-class researchers during office hours, to discuss ideas with my peers and have them either validated or critiqued by experts. Sure, all the information is available o…
> University gave me the opportunity to talk to world-class researchers during office hours
Neither world-class researchers or office hours exist in most Universities.
"Office hours" is entirely an American (and maybe British?) thing.
Re: Universities should be more than toll gates
#96Earlier quoted context omitted.
Same. I didn't know how to express my passions, and I didn't know that I didn't know. I've since been (re?)discovering this. I'm still working on it. I wish that we didn't talk down to kids to teach them, and instead approached them as equals, so that they wouldn't think that their passions and interests are below that of "grown ups". I recently learned that there's a term for that. Well sort of. It's "andragogy", wh…
Historically universities began as church schools, and (more or less) existed to educate priests in persuasion and nobility in leadership. You might think that's archaic, but that's still the primary purpose of the Ivy League in the US and the older equivalents around the world. The caste system works slightly differently, with priests (persuaders and marketers) replaced by economists, lawyers, and politicians, and n…
I agree with all of what you said, and my personal twist is that this weird, archaic, self-preserving hierarchy is a slightly-lagging expression of our collective mindset. We're changing how we think, and that is indirectly eroding away at this status quo. I see this most vividly with how we treat kids and how fast that's changing: every generation has a much better relationship with their kids than the previous generation.
Re: Universities should be more than toll gates
#97[deleted]
Re: Universities should be more than toll gates
#98I am always astonished by the range of people who claim their college degree was useless, citing rote memorization and bad classes. I had an entirely different experience and so did most people I know. University gave me the opportunity to talk to world-class researchers during office hours, to discuss ideas with my peers and have them either validated or critiqued by experts. Sure, all the information is available o…
Thank you; I feel similarly and wish I could go back as an adult to take even more advantage of all the incredible opportunities. Having four years to dedicate to learning new things in depth -- with zero pressure to take shortcuts so that the lessons become economically useful sooner -- was more of a privilege than I understood at the time.
And then of course, the people I met there have shaped my life and career in wonderful ways ever since. The sheer level of diversity among students and faculty is unlike anything I've experienced elsewhere. Many of them are still my lifelong friends (or in one case my wife :)) and others have opened professional doors to me 15 years later and counting.
But also, I went to a very well known and respected university with sufficient endowment and financial aid that it shouldn't be functioning as a "toll gate" regardless. I know things are not this rosy at a lot of universities.
Re: Universities should be more than toll gates
#99I am always astonished by the range of people who claim their college degree was useless, citing rote memorization and bad classes. I had an entirely different experience and so did most people I know. University gave me the opportunity to talk to world-class researchers during office hours, to discuss ideas with my peers and have them either validated or critiqued by experts. Sure, all the information is available o…
> University gave me the opportunity to talk to world-class researchers during office hours Neither world-class researchers or office hours exist in most Universities. "Office hours" is entirely an American (and maybe British?) thing.
If you’re in an American University, then the professors will most likely be top researchers in some particular niche, and they will likely have office hours. I think the “college is a toll” argument specifically applies to American universities that are essentially pay to play.
Re: Universities should be more than toll gates
#100I am always astonished by the range of people who claim their college degree was useless, citing rote memorization and bad classes. I had an entirely different experience and so did most people I know. University gave me the opportunity to talk to world-class researchers during office hours, to discuss ideas with my peers and have them either validated or critiqued by experts. Sure, all the information is available o…
> University gave me the opportunity to talk to world-class researchers during office hours Neither world-class researchers or office hours exist in most Universities. "Office hours" is entirely an American (and maybe British?) thing.
That’s not true. Source: University of Warsaw. Poland. Not Illinois. I’ve had office hours with world-class mathematicians. Those office hours were required of every lecturer and TA.