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Grove.io shutting down

grove.io

91–100 of 205 posts

Re: Grove.io shutting down

#91
post #47

Here is why this failed... Anyone with half a brain is going to be able to: * run their own IRC server * run a XMPP server ( cough openfire) * Sign up for another service that has more features (Campfire or Hipchat) Not to be mean, but the pricing on grove.io is stupid for what they offer. I run a XMPP server at work and costs us nothing for the basics, which is group chat and private chat. They could have offered th…

We were doing this (and still do run our own XMPP servers for other purposes), and opted for grove for the logging, availability and to ease the maintenance burden.

Just because anyone can do it, doesn't mean everyone wants to, even (or especially) when you're a highly tech-centric organisation.

Re: Grove.io shutting down

#92

This is why I refuse to use external services hosted by small/tiny companies that haven't open-sourced their tech. Even in this moment, they still don't seem to be bothering to open source any of it. There's a lesson to be learnt here in terms of gaining buyer trust when you're small. I continue to use our own setup for IRC.

There is no difference between large and small tech companies shutting down their services. Google has shut down close to 50 services in recent year if I remember correctly: http://techcrunch.com/2012/07/03/google-shutdowns-continue-i...

Re: Grove.io shutting down

#93
For those who liked Grove and its combination of IRC and web chat, I personally recommend Flowdock which also has an IRC interface https://flowdock.com/ I know the people behind Flowdock personally and know that they are going to be around for a long time.

As a personal note, it's sad to see Grove go away. It was the first bigger service I got to design and I loved working with Leah.

Re: Grove.io shutting down

#94
post #91
post #47

Here is why this failed... Anyone with half a brain is going to be able to: * run their own IRC server * run a XMPP server ( cough openfire) * Sign up for another service that has more features (Campfire or Hipchat) Not to be mean, but the pricing on grove.io is stupid for what they offer. I run a XMPP server at work and costs us nothing for the basics, which is group chat and private chat. They could have offered th…

We were doing this (and still do run our own XMPP servers for other purposes), and opted for grove for the logging, availability and to ease the maintenance burden. Just because anyone can do it, doesn't mean everyone wants to, even (or especially) when you're a highly tech-centric organisation.

Yeah I run my own IRC server but when it came to my clients, I didn't want to be responsible for that. Grove is fantastic but wasn't all that reliable. I wish it had taken off, though! I might be forced to fill the void ;)

Re: Grove.io shutting down

#95
Ugh, I don't understand how Grove.io can just drift apart like that. Surely Grove's costs were relatively low, and my impression was that there was a significant level of uptake.

> "..our team has moved on to other projects.."

So, unprofitable, or just not the next Facebook? Is there really no one that is happy to keep the service ticking along?

I feel like there is a pretty significant problem with tech startups, where everyone is so busy trying to be the next big thing, that everything else is dropped and abandoned in that pursuit.

Re: Grove.io shutting down

#96
post #29
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its a self-fulfilling prophesy. You can't get big without customers, but customers won't use you because you're small. How do we overcome this? (Edit: I was asking a rhetorical question to counter the parent. But great discussion below.)

No NO.. it's not because they're small. It's because tech start-ups have a history of shutting down or selling, and leaving their users in the dust. The list is long. Another recent example was Sparrow. I broke my rule about buying/licensing software from small companies (unless I got the source) with Sparrow. I didn't just buy 1 copy, I (we) brought 15 (for the office). And of course, I got burned. Again. It will no…

You paid $150 for software which still works, which had no promise of updates forever anyway, and you're upset?

Not that your point is invalid talking about Grove - suddenly everyone who used it has to move in under a month. But I don't get the upset over Sparrow. If it helped you at the time, it should help you now.

Re: Grove.io shutting down

#97
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No NO.. it's not because they're small. It's because tech start-ups have a history of shutting down or selling, and leaving their users in the dust. The list is long. Another recent example was Sparrow. I broke my rule about buying/licensing software from small companies (unless I got the source) with Sparrow. I didn't just buy 1 copy, I (we) brought 15 (for the office). And of course, I got burned. Again. It will no…

You paid $150 for software which still works, which had no promise of updates forever anyway, and you're upset? Not that your point is invalid talking about Grove - suddenly everyone who used it has to move in under a month. But I don't get the upset over Sparrow. If it helped you at the time, it should help you now.

I don't want to rehash Sparrow. But, if they'd had fixed long standing bugs, and added the features they promised I would not be so upset about it. But they didn't. They dropped the project and went on to Google.

Leaving with with a ridiculous "feel-good" blog post.

My point though, this isn't uncommon. And this kind of user treatment is one of the big reasons many tech start-ups have a tough time making the sale.

Now of course, if said company manages to get momentum (like a Dropbox, Github, FB - to name a few) - I guess they are no longer startups.

Re: Grove.io shutting down

#99
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But that's hacking trust. It's opposite to just being honest and having a publicized contingency plan, or open-source code. edit (since I can't reply): logic being that social proof is good for business, but has no substance. It doesn't make it any better for users when it comes to shutting down.

The substance of social proof is that it shows that a lot of people have faith in your product and trust you enough to pay you to use it. It's not just a gimmick, it's a concrete psychological trigger.

Yes, of course social proof has substance as marketing strategy. But gaining trust is orthogonal to actually being reliable. (this is still about the top comment)

Re: Grove.io shutting down

#100
post #20
post #7

It's getting a little difficult to trust stuff by Leah Culver. Everything (that I know of) that she has done so far has either shut down or been acquired and shut down. That said, no hard feelings. It's hard out there. I've never tried to run a company, so I can't judge.

And yet you just did. As a community we praise people for trying, then when it fails we pillory them? A dick move, sir.

  pil·lo·ry [pil-uh-ree] noun
  a wooden framework erected on a post, with holes for securing
  the head and hands, formerly used to expose an offender to public
  derision.
Is that really what grandparent did? I think it's an unfair characterization. It was a personal opinion stated weakly and with restraint, not some attempt to incite a mob.

I have no opinion on this specific startup. Perhaps they've provided enough time to migrate; that's for their paying customers to judge. But it's naive to think failures doesn't affect your reputation. It does, and it should. Do you really think savvy users won't take your track record into account when deciding whether to use your service? It goes against their interests, and nothing is more darwinian than a startup.

---

Here in silicon valley we say that failure is ok. And yet accountability is also good. There's a tension here.

Perhaps failed startups are fine for investors, who might have diversified into many different vehicles. They're more problematic for customers who rely on a product. And paradoxically, the closer a startup gets to solving a hair-on-fire problem, the more careful they need to be about how they treat their customers on the way out.

Even if investors claim failure is ok, is that always the case? I suspect past track record does play a role somehow, even if it's subtle and hidden behind the scenes.

Even if failure is sometimes ok, there are failures and there are failures. A lot depends on how the wrap-up was carried out, and how people feel about it.

When startups are few and creation is to be encouraged, failure can be ignored. When startups are plentiful and failure starts to be taken for granted, perhaps it's time to emphasize accountability.

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