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Tokyo has an unmanned, honor-system electronics and appliance shop

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Re: Tokyo has an unmanned, honor-system electronics and appliance shop

#91

Post by more_corn »

HeavyStorm wrote: post #83
rayiner wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People have been arrested here for grabbing a medium combini coffee cup and using it to serve a large coffee. God I love Japan. Studies show that the most important thing about criminal punishment is certainty of being caught and prosecuted.

> Studies show that the most important thing about criminal punishment is certainty of being caught and prosecuted. This might lead someone to wrongly conclude that high order societies are a matter of policing. It's not. It's a matter of culture. Japan doesn't have more cops per citizen than your average 1st world country. But they do have a culture that deeply condemns crime and values honor.

But they also won’t declare a death a murder unless they can solve it. They take their 100% solve rate quite seriously.

Re: Tokyo has an unmanned, honor-system electronics and appliance shop

#92

Post by yencabulator »

bob1029 wrote: post #69

You still see little islands of high trust in the US. I walked out of an HEB the other day and there were several pickup trucks idling in the parking lot with nobody inside of them. You could open the door and drive off with zero effort if you could find the insanity to do so. I often dont bother to lock my doors at home. The Walmart here doesn't hassle you upon exiting. The local community feels incredibly safe. Dri…

> several pickup trucks idling in the parking lot

Way to make it very American..

Re: Tokyo has an unmanned, honor-system electronics and appliance shop

#93

Post by rjh29 »

hilbert42 wrote: post #82
rjh29 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those vending machines are supposed to check ID but I've never seen one do (I think cigarette machines do). They just turn off at night and apparently that's enough to stop children from using them.

It's quite some time since I've been there but I can't remember an ID system being in place. I didn't have to produce an ID and usually I selected non-alcoholic drinks. However, that was before the proliferation of smartphones, so back then it is likely there was no ID checking. As a nonsmoker, I can't speak about cigarette machines, likely there was no ID on them too. Nowadays, with smartphones etc. checking IDs is…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taspo

Re: Tokyo has an unmanned, honor-system electronics and appliance shop

#94

Post by hilbert42 »

rjh29 wrote: post #93
hilbert42 wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's quite some time since I've been there but I can't remember an ID system being in place. I didn't have to produce an ID and usually I selected non-alcoholic drinks. However, that was before the proliferation of smartphones, so back then it is likely there was no ID checking. As a nonsmoker, I can't speak about cigarette machines, likely there was no ID on them too. Nowadays, with smartphones etc. checking IDs is…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taspo

Right, that's cleared things up. Both the Taspo/Tobacco Card and vending machine capability (cash or credit, top up card, etc.) weren't available when I was there last. I'd reckon the strict ID requirements for Taspo card must have been quite a cultural shock. My recollection was that back then tobacco products were much more freely available than where I was living.

Re: Tokyo has an unmanned, honor-system electronics and appliance shop

#95

Post by socalgal2 »

henearkr wrote: post #63
socalgal2 wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

given the stats above, 33 of 100k incarcerated, vs 541 of 100k in the USA. I'm inclined to think that the USA has far more of those types of cases than Japan.

Hmm, the thing is that the hostage justice system does have a deterrent effect . Its net effect is that you absolutely do not want to have anything to do with the police to help solve your problems in the society (true problems, not merely e.g. asking for directions). And then you really want to avoid problems at all. So, you cannot think of them as "friendly useful workers to help solve problems", because they are h…

> you absolutely do not want to have anything to do with the police to help solve your problems in the society

this is commonly said in the USA as well

Re: Tokyo has an unmanned, honor-system electronics and appliance shop

#96

Post by rangestransform »

HeavyStorm wrote: post #83
rayiner wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People have been arrested here for grabbing a medium combini coffee cup and using it to serve a large coffee. God I love Japan. Studies show that the most important thing about criminal punishment is certainty of being caught and prosecuted.

> Studies show that the most important thing about criminal punishment is certainty of being caught and prosecuted. This might lead someone to wrongly conclude that high order societies are a matter of policing. It's not. It's a matter of culture. Japan doesn't have more cops per citizen than your average 1st world country. But they do have a culture that deeply condemns crime and values honor.

Singapore was able to police itself into a high trust society

Re: Tokyo has an unmanned, honor-system electronics and appliance shop

#97

Post by rangestransform »

yorwba wrote: post #89
HPsquared wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only 33 prisoners per 100k population (cf 541 in the US). Whatever they're doing, it's working. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_incarce...

In 2024, the average US prison sentence was for a duration of 52 months, with over half the total months being for drug trafficking (average 82 months) https://www.ussc.gov/sites/default/files/pdf/research-and-pu... (page 11). Also in 2024, Japanese prison sentences were mostly between 1 and 3 years, and about two thirds were fully suspended. https://www.moj.go.jp/content/001436547.pdf (page 20). Assuming an average…

The US court system already relies heavily on plea deals to not jam up the courts. Increasing the throughput of the justice system to facilitate your idea would require an order of magnitude investment into more courts, judges, public defenders, prosecutors, etc. I'm all for it, but the incredible cost does have to be considered

Re: Tokyo has an unmanned, honor-system electronics and appliance shop

#98

Post by henearkr »

socalgal2 wrote: post #95
henearkr wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hmm, the thing is that the hostage justice system does have a deterrent effect . Its net effect is that you absolutely do not want to have anything to do with the police to help solve your problems in the society (true problems, not merely e.g. asking for directions). And then you really want to avoid problems at all. So, you cannot think of them as "friendly useful workers to help solve problems", because they are h…

> you absolutely do not want to have anything to do with the police to help solve your problems in the society this is commonly said in the USA as well

Ah ok, I see.

Maybe I rather have (had) the notion of police as it exists in the UK or some European countries.

There was the French "police de proximité" who acted as friendly allies (it seems it was dismantled in 2003, unfortunately).

Re: Tokyo has an unmanned, honor-system electronics and appliance shop

#99

Post by HPsquared »

rangestransform wrote: post #97
yorwba wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In 2024, the average US prison sentence was for a duration of 52 months, with over half the total months being for drug trafficking (average 82 months) https://www.ussc.gov/sites/default/files/pdf/research-and-pu... (page 11). Also in 2024, Japanese prison sentences were mostly between 1 and 3 years, and about two thirds were fully suspended. https://www.moj.go.jp/content/001436547.pdf (page 20). Assuming an average…

The US court system already relies heavily on plea deals to not jam up the courts. Increasing the throughput of the justice system to facilitate your idea would require an order of magnitude investment into more courts, judges, public defenders, prosecutors, etc. I'm all for it, but the incredible cost does have to be considered

Are plea deals factored into the US conviction rate?

Re: Tokyo has an unmanned, honor-system electronics and appliance shop

#100

Post by yorwba »

HPsquared wrote: post #99
rangestransform wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US court system already relies heavily on plea deals to not jam up the courts. Increasing the throughput of the justice system to facilitate your idea would require an order of magnitude investment into more courts, judges, public defenders, prosecutors, etc. I'm all for it, but the incredible cost does have to be considered

Are plea deals factored into the US conviction rate?

In the PDF I linked above, on page 4, you can see that 97.2% of sentences result from guilty pleas and 2.8% from trials.
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