Magic Lantern Is Back • Hacker News Board

Re: Magic Lantern Is Back

#91

Post by jibal » Wed, Sep 03, 2025, 1:26 PM UTC

chownie wrote: post #69

names_r_hard wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with some of what you're saying; some of the well known risks of working in C are because it's a small standard. But much of the undefined behaviour was deliberately made that way to support the hardware of the time - it's hard to be cross-platform on different architectures as a low-level language. C genuinely is easy to pick up. It is harder to master. And you're right, for many domains, there are better op…

> C genuinely is easy to pick up. I feel like this is a bit of an https://xkcd.com/2501/ situation. C is considered easy to pick up for the average user posting HN comments because we have the benefit of years -- the average comp sci student, who has been exposed to Javascript and Python, who might not know what "pass by reference" even means... I'm not sure they're going to be considering C easy.

Everything is passed by reference in Python. Everything is passed by value in C.

Re: Magic Lantern Is Back

#92

Post by chrisweekly » Wed, Sep 03, 2025, 1:27 PM UTC

jibal wrote: post #90

IshKebab wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's exactly his point. Languages aren't easier to learn simply because their specification is short, any more than instruments are easier to play because they have fewer strings.

The analogy is completely invalid. Languages with small specifications are easier to learn. It's sad that the dev, who has done great work, has to spend time defending the C language from critters living under a bridge when it's a fixed element that isn't going to change.

Accusing people who disagree w/ you of being trolls doesn't bolster your argument.

Re: Magic Lantern Is Back

#93

Post by waz0wski » Wed, Sep 03, 2025, 1:30 PM UTC

heliographe wrote: post #32

Yes! As a software developer in the photography space, we are deeply in need of projects like this. The photography world is mired in proprietary software/ formats, and locked down hardware; and while it has always been true that a digital camera is “just” a computer, now more than ever it is painful just how limited and archaic on-board camera software is when compared to what we’ve grown accustomed to in the mobile…

Agreed

cries in .x3f & Sigma Photo Pro

Re: Magic Lantern Is Back

#94

Post by dylan604 » Wed, Sep 03, 2025, 1:39 PM UTC

names_r_hard wrote: post #29

Thanks to all who are sharing their appreciation for this niche but cool project. I'm the current lead dev, so please ask questions. Got a Canon DSLR or mirrorless and like a bit of software reverse engineering? Consider joining in; it's quite an approachable hardware target. No code obfuscation, just classic reversing. You can pick up a well supported cam for a little less than $100. Cams range from ARMv5te up to AA…

I still shoot a 5Dmkii solely due to the ML firmware. It's primarily a timelapse camera at this point. The ETTR functionality is one of my absolute favorites. The biggest drawback I have is trying to shoot with an interval less than 5 seconds. The ML software gets confused and shoots irregular interval shots. Anything over 5 seconds, and it's great. No external timers necessary for the majority of my shooting. I do still have an external for when Thanks for your work keeping it going, and for those that have worked on it before.

Re: Magic Lantern Is Back

#95

Post by thijson » Wed, Sep 03, 2025, 1:40 PM UTC

jibal wrote: post #90

IshKebab wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's exactly his point. Languages aren't easier to learn simply because their specification is short, any more than instruments are easier to play because they have fewer strings.

The analogy is completely invalid. Languages with small specifications are easier to learn. It's sad that the dev, who has done great work, has to spend time defending the C language from critters living under a bridge when it's a fixed element that isn't going to change.

People don't argue with a carpenter over what tools were used to build a piece of furniture. It feels like a religious debate.

Re: Magic Lantern Is Back

#96

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Sep 03, 2025, 1:43 PM UTC

names_r_hard wrote: post #73

chownie wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> C genuinely is easy to pick up. I feel like this is a bit of an https://xkcd.com/2501/ situation. C is considered easy to pick up for the average user posting HN comments because we have the benefit of years -- the average comp sci student, who has been exposed to Javascript and Python, who might not know what "pass by reference" even means... I'm not sure they're going to be considering C easy.

I've taught several different languages to both 1st year uni students, and new joiners to a technical company, where they had no programming background. Honestly, C seems to be one of the easier languages to teach the basics of. It's certainly easier than Java or C++, which have many more concepts. C has some concepts that confuse the hell out of beginners, and it will let you shoot yourself in the foot very thorough…

[deleted]

Re: Magic Lantern Is Back

#97

Post by dylan604 » Wed, Sep 03, 2025, 1:44 PM UTC

CarVac wrote: post #86

names_r_hard wrote: post #29

Thanks to all who are sharing their appreciation for this niche but cool project. I'm the current lead dev, so please ask questions. Got a Canon DSLR or mirrorless and like a bit of software reverse engineering? Consider joining in; it's quite an approachable hardware target. No code obfuscation, just classic reversing. You can pick up a well supported cam for a little less than $100. Cams range from ARMv5te up to AA…

I would love to add it to my 1Ds3. I recall reading that once upon a time Canon wrote ML devs a strongly worded letter telling them not to touch a 1D, but a camera that old is long obsolete. (I literally only want a raw histogram) (I also have a 1Dx2 but that's probably a harder port)

I have been toying with the idea of picking up an old 1D. I can't remember the guy's name that I saw do this, but he had his 1D modified to use a PL mount instead of an EF mount. Something about the 1D body (being thicker I guess) allowed for the flange distances to work out. He then mounted a $35,000 17mm wide angle to it. That lens was huge and could just suck in photons. With that lens, he could expose the night sky in 1/3 second exposures what would take multiple seconds on my gear. He mounted the camera to the front of his boat floating down river using night vision goggles to see where he was going. The images were fantastic. I always wanted to do something crazy like that

Re: Magic Lantern Is Back

#98

Post by bprater » Wed, Sep 03, 2025, 1:46 PM UTC

joatmon-snoo wrote: post #9

For folks who don't know what Magic Lantern is: > Magic Lantern is a free software add-on that runs from the SD/CF card and adds a host of new features to Canon EOS cameras that weren't included from the factory by Canon. It also backports new features to old Canon cameras that aren't supported anymore, and is generally just a really impressive feat of both (1) reverse engineering and (2) keeping old hardware relevan…

More backstory: before the modern generation of digital cameras - Magic Lantern was one of the early ways to "juice" more power out of early generations of Canon cameras, including RAW video recording.

Today, cameras like Blackmagic and editing platforms like DaVinci handle RAW seamlessly, but it wasn't like this even a few years ago.

Re: Magic Lantern Is Back

#99

Post by mikepurvis » Wed, Sep 03, 2025, 1:53 PM UTC

raffael_de wrote: post #89

What would be something you can achieve using ML that you couldn't do with the stock firmware and postprocessing?

I don't know if modern cameras are better for this, but a big one historically was getting a clean, realtime HDMI output so that high quality cameras can be used with a capture card for broadcast purposes as a replacement for a webcam. Manufacturers understand that that's a "pro" level need/feature and have intentionally segmented the market so that lower-tier devices can't do it even though the hardware is obviously all present.

Re: Magic Lantern Is Back

#100

Post by dylan604 » Wed, Sep 03, 2025, 1:55 PM UTC

raffael_de wrote: post #89

What would be something you can achieve using ML that you couldn't do with the stock firmware and postprocessing?

The list is so long. My favorite is the internal intervalometer + ETTR. Canon has always been laughed at for not having an internal intervalometer, and ML proves how lame it is to not have one. ETTR (Expose To The Right) is an auto metering mode that allows the camera to keep the histogram pushed as far to the right (better exposure) automagically by increasing shutter time and/or increasing ISO. This is essential for doing holy grail timelapse of sunset/sunrise where the exposure is constantly changing. This feature alone is worth it's weight in gold.

However, a lot of the features exposed are more video oriented. The Canon bodies were primarily photo cameras that could shoot video in a cumbersome way. ML brings features a video shooter would need without diving into the menus like audio metering. The older bodies also have hardware limitations on write speed, so people use the HDMI out to external recorders to record a larger framesize/bitrate/codec than natively possible. Also, that feed normally has the camera UI overlay which prevents clean recordings. ML allows turning that off.

There are just too many features that ML unlocks. You'd really just need to find the camera body you are interested in using on their site, and see what it does for that body. Different bodies have different features. So some effort is required on your part to know exactly what it can do for you.