Live data from Hacker News

Agent Client Protocol (ACP)

agentclientprotocol.com

91–100 of 104 posts

Re: Agent Client Protocol (ACP)

#91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hard disagree. LLMs are now incredibly good for any coding task (with popular languages).

What's your explanation for why others report difficulty getting coding agents to produce their desired results? And don't respond with a childish "skill issue lol" like it's Twitter. What specific skill do you think people are lacking?

In no particular order: LLMs seem, for some reason, to be worse at some languages than others.

LLMs only have so much context available, so larger projects are harder to get good results in.

Some tools (eg a fast compiler) are very useful to agents to get good feedback. If you don't have a compiler, you'll get hallucinations corrected more slowly.

Some people have schedules that facilitate long uninterrupted periods, so they see an agent work for twenty minutes on a task and think "well I could've done that in 10-30 minutes, so where's the gain?". And those people haven't understood that they could be running many agents in parallel (I don't blame people for not realizing this, no one I talk to is doing this at work).

People also don't realize they could have the agent working while they're asleep/eating lunch/in a meeting. This is why, in my experience, managers find agents more transformative than ICs do. We're in more meetings, with fewer uninterrupted periods.

People have an expectation that the agent will always one-shot the implementation, and don't appreciate it when the agent gets them 80% of the way there. Or that, it's basically free to try again if the agent went completely off the rails.

A lot of people don't understand that agents are a step beyond just an LLM, so their attempts last year have colored their expectations.

Some people are less willing to attempt to work with the agent to make it better at producing good output. They don't know how to do it. Your agent got logging wrong? Okay, tell it to read an example of good logging and to write a rule that will get it correct.

Re: Agent Client Protocol (ACP)

#92
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm basically sold on Zed, it has everything I have wanted from an editor for years, and that's without the amazing other things that they added that I wasn't even envisioning. For years I've prototyped a few different editors because of frustration with the status quo. There's a lot of work that goes into a good editor, and Zed has definitely done the legwork. I welcome them openly collaborating.

You can take my IntelliJ IDE out of my cold, dead hands. I don’t understand why anyone would want to miss out on all the automatic inference and interlinked code base, the integrated tooling… Every time I try something like Zed or VS Code, I end up disappointed or install a no longer supported plugin only to learn it falls way short. Yes, Zed's startup time is way better, and it definitely feels snappier. But when I…

> I don’t understand why anyone would want to miss out on all the automatic inference and interlinked code base, the integrated tooling…

It's almost like you can get that experience with other editors too, not just IDEs :) I'm using vim/neovim and have the same stuff I see others do with IDEs, but I can definitely see why a bunch of people use IDEs anyways, I'm not blind got the fact that other more barebones editors need a bit more fiddling to get to your liking.

Re: Agent Client Protocol (ACP)

#93

The big question is why it can't be just a LSP server or extension to the LSP protocol to provide all that might be needed by the LLM.

Because there is no ai hype in LSP. AI is literally going through the same phase as early javascript libraries did. An explosion of tools, completely ignoring/bypassing previous accumulated knowledge, solving the wrong problems with the wrong tools.

And this will pile up the bloat stack, similar to js libraries, because new problems will rise from the wrong solutions, requiring even more wrong solutions to be incorporated in the stack.

Re: Agent Client Protocol (ACP)

#94
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can take my IntelliJ IDE out of my cold, dead hands. I don’t understand why anyone would want to miss out on all the automatic inference and interlinked code base, the integrated tooling… Every time I try something like Zed or VS Code, I end up disappointed or install a no longer supported plugin only to learn it falls way short. Yes, Zed's startup time is way better, and it definitely feels snappier. But when I…

It's fine, it sounds like you're an enterprise programmer and that suits your role/use case. I use zed with the inbuilt terminal, additional terminals + tools like pgcli and docker. I would feel trapped/impotent using an IDE, esp combined with the lack of snappiness a java app gives you.

In my case, my employers forbid tools like JetBrains so I am paying out of pocket for tooling I cannot even use most of my day. I rather just invest in making a different tool better, even if that means doing a few PRs here and there.

Re: Agent Client Protocol (ACP)

#95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nowadays, it is better to write prompts Very big doubt . AI can help for a few very specific tasks, but the hallucinations still happen, and making things up (especially APIs) is unacceptable.

In languages with strong compile-time checks (like say rust) the obvious problems can mostly be solved by having the agent try to compile the program as a last step, and most agents now do that on their own. In cases where that doesn't work (more permissive languages like python, or http APIs) you can have the AI write tests and execute them. Or ask the AI to prototype and test features separately before adding them…

The subtle bugs are horrible.

We used Claude Code the other day to add a new record type to an API and it was mostly right. CC decided (for some weird reason) to use a slightly different return shape on a list endpoint than the entire rest of the API. It changed two field names (count/items became total_count/data). This divergence was missed until the code was released because it 'worked' and had full tests and everything. But when the standard client lib code was used to access the API it failed on the list endpoint. Didn't take long to discover the issue. Luckily, it was a new feature so nothing broke, but it was a very clear reminder that you have to be very thorough when reviewing coding agent PRs.

FWIW, I use CC frequently and have mostly positive things to say about it as a tool.

Re: Agent Client Protocol (ACP)

#96
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, I've done this, I've pasted in the headers and pleaded with it to not imagine ABIs that don't exist, and multiple models just want to make it work however they can. People shouldn't be so quick to reply like this, many people have tried all this advice... It also doesn't help that there is no independent test that can describe these issues, so all there is anecdote to use a different vendor or that the person mus…

There is a significant gap between agents and models. Agents use multiple models, can interact with the environment, and take many steps. You can get them to reflect on what they have done and what they need to do to continue, without intervention. One of the more important things they can do is understand their environment, the libraries and versions in use, fetch or read the docs, and then base their edits on those…

You can't make any guarantees and manually watching everything is not tenable. "Much" instead of "all" means having to check it all because "much" is random.

Re: Agent Client Protocol (ACP)

#97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In languages with strong compile-time checks (like say rust) the obvious problems can mostly be solved by having the agent try to compile the program as a last step, and most agents now do that on their own. In cases where that doesn't work (more permissive languages like python, or http APIs) you can have the AI write tests and execute them. Or ask the AI to prototype and test features separately before adding them…

The subtle bugs are horrible. We used Claude Code the other day to add a new record type to an API and it was mostly right. CC decided (for some weird reason) to use a slightly different return shape on a list endpoint than the entire rest of the API. It changed two field names (count/items became total_count/data). This divergence was missed until the code was released because it 'worked' and had full tests and ever…

[deleted]

Re: Agent Client Protocol (ACP)

#98
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a significant gap between agents and models. Agents use multiple models, can interact with the environment, and take many steps. You can get them to reflect on what they have done and what they need to do to continue, without intervention. One of the more important things they can do is understand their environment, the libraries and versions in use, fetch or read the docs, and then base their edits on those…

You can't make any guarantees and manually watching everything is not tenable. "Much" instead of "all" means having to check it all because "much" is random.

You don't have to watch it like you don't have to watch your peers. We have code review processes in place already

You're never going to get all, you don't have all today. Humans make mistakes too and have to run programs to discover their errors

Re: Agent Client Protocol (ACP)

#99

I’ve been writing a tool to enable Claude Code to use ACP (because I use CC and Zed a lot) and so far I’ve been pretty successful (using the Claude Code SDK and the ACP Client library) although there are some rough edges. I will polish it a little bit and publish it tomorrow I guess.

Found this repo the other day in case that's useful: https://github.com/Xuanwo/acp-claude-code

Re: Agent Client Protocol (ACP)

#100
post #93

The big question is why it can't be just a LSP server or extension to the LSP protocol to provide all that might be needed by the LLM.

Because there is no ai hype in LSP. AI is literally going through the same phase as early javascript libraries did. An explosion of tools, completely ignoring/bypassing previous accumulated knowledge, solving the wrong problems with the wrong tools. And this will pile up the bloat stack, similar to js libraries, because new problems will rise from the wrong solutions, requiring even more wrong solutions to be incorpo…

did you actually think about the question or you just want to shout an opinion?

The question doesn't even make sense, there is no overlap between LSP and ACP

Post reply on HN