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Windows 11 Update KB5063878 Causing SSD Failures

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Re: Windows 11 Update KB5063878 Causing SSD Failures

#91

Is it actually killing the SSD (SSD can no longer be used) or just corrupting the data on the SSD? It's hard to make out from all the comments and news articles.

some data might be worth way more than any SSD.

If it is then storing it without backups sounds like a bad idea

Re: Windows 11 Update KB5063878 Causing SSD Failures

#92
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Just" corrupting your filesystem...

Relative seriousness, both drive damage and filesystem damage are both bad but by slightly different degrees. There is more chance of being able to fix data corruption, than being able to fix a bricked drive or one with unbearable blocks.

Self rely as I'm too late to edit out a slide-keyboard error: unbearable -> unreadable

Re: Windows 11 Update KB5063878 Causing SSD Failures

#93

But what's actually happening? There seems to be a lack of technical information. And why does the SSD allow this to happen? A SSD has its own onboard computer, it's not just allowing the OS to do whatever it wants. Obviously the OS can write way too much and reach the endurance limit but that should have been figured out almost instantly, with OS write stats and SMART stats.

>But what's actually happening? There seems to be a lack of technical information. That's also what I want to know. All the information on this topic seems to be just circular anecdotes like a snake eating its own tail: a bunch of anecdotal reddit posts, quoting a Tom's hardware article, that's quoting more anecdotal reddit posts, that's quoting one Japanese tweet of someone's speculation. Like how many of these SSD…

Right. It could just be the usual suspects of misinformation (Reddit, click-hungry "journalists", certain YouTube/Tiktok creators) amplifying each other in a circle. Just like that "16 billion passwords data leak" earlier this year.

There is probably something going on. It could very well just be a bad batch of SSD controllers from one manufacturer failing.

Re: Windows 11 Update KB5063878 Causing SSD Failures

#94

Tomorrow, somebody will still explain to you like you're a child that Linux has hardware incompatibilities (on the computer they bought last week the day it came out), and is just not ready for prime time. They want to stick with Windows because it's safe and just works.

And I will continue to use non-upgradable Macs because, while I miss tinkering with and upgrading my computers, I simply don’t have time for it anymore.

Re: Windows 11 Update KB5063878 Causing SSD Failures

#95

Tomorrow, somebody will still explain to you like you're a child that Linux has hardware incompatibilities (on the computer they bought last week the day it came out), and is just not ready for prime time. They want to stick with Windows because it's safe and just works.

And sadly they’ll still be right :<

Re: Windows 11 Update KB5063878 Causing SSD Failures

#96
post #83
post #49

I'm wondering if I should defer my full system backup on the 1st of September, as the resulting file is 300+ GB. I had a BSOD last week, 0x0000012b (FAULTY_HARDWARE_CORRUPTED_PAGE), which I've never had, and was hoping it isn't related to this update.

You might want to run memtest86+ (or the built-in equivalent from some OEMs like Dell), in my experience memory sticks sometimes go bad after being in use for a while.

Maybe just re-tuning the timing, if he's using high performance sticks. Because parts are hard to get by where I live, I usually stick 10+ years with a PC. With usage I found that I have to relax the timings a bit after some years.

Re: Windows 11 Update KB5063878 Causing SSD Failures

#97
post #16

That's why I don't install updates, unless and until they've been proven not to break things. I miss the old days when software was expected to work out of the box and updates, on the rare occasions when they appeared, were actually useful.

I hope you are speaking with tongue in cheek. Security is the main reason to keep current with updates. They address various “CVE” reports and go beyond to patch things not reported by CVEs.

I think users wouldn't be so resistant to security updates of they were just that and not bundled with feature removal, unwanted new features, and other things.

Or if they were properly done. Example: Intel and the plundervolt vulnerability. To fix that they removed the ability for undervolting in ny laptop. If I don't use SGX there's no reason for the block. They could've restricted undervolting only when SGX is enabled but no, they had to "fix" it in the worst way possible.

Re: Windows 11 Update KB5063878 Causing SSD Failures

#98
post #16

That's why I don't install updates, unless and until they've been proven not to break things. I miss the old days when software was expected to work out of the box and updates, on the rare occasions when they appeared, were actually useful.

I hope you are speaking with tongue in cheek. Security is the main reason to keep current with updates. They address various “CVE” reports and go beyond to patch things not reported by CVEs.

CVE inflation is real. Most CVEs are of very low quality.

Anyway, security updates should be decoupled from feature updates, so that people aren't hesitant to update. Otherwise, you get people who hold out because they're worried the new release is going to break all their settings and "opt-in" into all kinds of new telemetry.

Re: Windows 11 Update KB5063878 Causing SSD Failures

#99

Is it actually killing the SSD (SSD can no longer be used) or just corrupting the data on the SSD? It's hard to make out from all the comments and news articles.

I've seen lots of SSDs die suddenly (no longer visible on the bus), so I would assume that is what is happening based on the words people are using. I've yet to see an SSD fail to read only mode like they're supposed to... and there's rarely any warning, just working or dead (although I did have a couple that went from working to terribly slow while doing a large reallocation, and we replaced those rather than find out what would happen over a longer term)

That said, people use words with a different meaning all the time, and data corruption could fit as a failure.

Re: Windows 11 Update KB5063878 Causing SSD Failures

#100
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And why does the SSD allow this to happen? A SSD has its own onboard computer, it's not just allowing the OS to do whatever it wants. If the device is DRAM-less, much of its central information (large parts of the FTL, in particular) resides in the host's RAM, where the OS could presumably touch it. If that area of RAM is _somehow_ being overwritten or out-of-sync or otherwise unreliable, you can get pretty bad cor…

no, the FTL is still in the SSD unless it's a host-managed SSD which is also operating in host-managed mode, which none of the articles have mentioned to be related to the issue

The FTL executes on the SSD controller, which (on a DRAM-less controller) has limited on-chip SRAM and no DRAM. In contrast, a controller for more expensive SSDs which will require an external on-SSD DRAM chip of 1+GB.

The FTL algorithm still needs one or more large tables. The driver allocates host-side memory for these tables, and the CPU on the SSD that runs the FTL has to reach out over the PCIe bus (e.g. using DMA operations) to write or read these tables.

It's an abomination that wouldn't exist in an ideal world, but in that same ideal world people wouldn't buy a crappy product because it's $5 cheaper.

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