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YouTube steps up fight against ad blockers again

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Re: YouTube steps up fight against ad blockers again

#91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Single, public, online product and service database provided by the market regulator. Since the country gets income from taxing commerce it's only fair that they also provide discovery service. If you want to sell something on the market you have to enter it into this database, with the up to date price and relevant documentation. Consumers can access the database through provided UI or through 3rd party tools using…

That sounds incredibly dystopian to me. If you want to see anything to the public you must register with the appropriate government officials and hope that someone notices you in the giant list of your competitors. Of course giving too much information about why you're different would be an ad so how do consumers decide? You're also just going to end up with the phone book model. "AAAAAASearch, AAAAAACars"

> If you want to see anything to the public you must register with the appropriate government officials and hope that someone notices you in the giant list of your competitors.

That sounds wonderful! How do you see dystopian?

> Of course giving too much information about why you're different would be an ad so how do consumers decide?

God forbid I listen to my neighbors and their experiences! Come on, there's even a term for it: "word of mouth".

Re: YouTube steps up fight against ad blockers again

#92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Correct. Web adware/spyware is drive-by malware and a frequent funnel for scammers. Malware blockers are simply prudent. Intentionally allowing their programs to run would be insane. A normal person doesn't stop to consider whether blocking malware is somehow freeloading.

You will justify wanting things for nothing no matter what. Luckily for the rest of us, people like you are the minority so there are still enough resources for us to get the content we enjoy. But keep telling yourself that your not supporting the creators you enjoy is some moral victory.

There's where you are confused; I generally do not want things from "the creators" (e.g. I simply don't understand the audience for something like LTT. Non-technical people LARPing as nerds?), and don't see "creator" as a separate class of person.

To the extent that youtube has anything interesting on it, it tends to be random 1 minute recordings from some dude that just fixed something, or recordings of e.g. lectures that were being given anyway, and they felt like posting it somewhere free. These aren't people asking for support. They're unlikely to get more than a few hundred views.

See also [0]. There's already an infinite wealth of top quality works out there, already for free. It'd already take a lifetime to scratch the surface of the best ones. The "creators" you speak of are irrelevant.

[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44946863

Re: YouTube steps up fight against ad blockers again

#93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should private corporations have unlimitied license to propagandize and intentionally psychologically manipulate the entire populace? Why should private corporations with no oversight or meaningful consequences have the unlimited and unchallenged right to market drugs to kids? Why should they be allowed to post enormous flashing billboards on our roads? Why do these corporations have more right to common public s…

I haven't arguing they have a right to any of those things. When you resort to straw manning it's generally a good time to step back and reconsider your stance.

Calling out your euphemisms is not straw manning. It's the logical conclusion. When you're bending over backwards to defend surveillance capitalism, it's a good time to reconsider your moral principles.

Sorry, "but the public wants to get screwed" is a complete joke of an argument.

Re: YouTube steps up fight against ad blockers again

#94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Contacting a sales department at their provided address for that purpose is responding to a request for you to do so. This is nothing at all like taking money to propagandize people. Putting a product at a prominent part of your store because you think it's a good purchase for customers is also completely different from accepting money from a manufacturer to place it prominently. Going to an event where everyone spec…

Right direct sales is not advertising. The rest still is. You're missing a step though. There is no consumer pull for new products so there is no reason for stores to bother with them even if the owner thinks it's a great idea. The demand isn't there

They have a similar reason that the product developer had to make it: they have customer empathy, can identify a good product that satisfies a need when they see it, and know how to explain it to customers.

Re: YouTube steps up fight against ad blockers again

#95

I'm torn. I'm not a huge fan of ads and I don't have a lot of respect for the modern ad networks. However this culture of expecting websites to host the data then freeloading off it by blocking the tracking and ads is also a bit ugly. There is an unwritten social contract here. Websites are willing to host and organise a vast number of content because that'll attract an audience for ads. If there are too may freeload…

> There is an unwritten social contract here.

There isn't and never was. Adware and spyware have always been flavors of malware. Some people thought they could use that as a business model. It was pretty much immediately met with people blocking it and providing software to remove it. Some people have tried hiding botnet command and control functions in software they give out as a business model or putting crypto miners on web pages. That also doesn't form a social contract. That makes them malware authors.

Re: YouTube steps up fight against ad blockers again

#96
post #16

Talking about ads, just went in the living room and tv was turned on and there were ads. I never see any ads but let me take 30 seconds to see what is on tv. Absolutly disgusting. Wasted 30 seconds of my life and now I need medication to sleep tonight after seeing the *it goes on tv.

How many seconds of your life were wasted reading an article about YouTube ads then commenting here multiple times? If you need medication to sleep after seeing a single ad that seems like a pretty serious problem that warrants avoiding media entirely.

Collectively raising our voices against social injustices isn't a waste of time, unlike playing mental gymnastics to defend the abusive practices of trillion dollar companies.

Re: YouTube steps up fight against ad blockers again

#98
post #14

"About 11% of YouTube users openly say they use ad blockers. Some communities report 40-60% of viewers use ad blockers. Overall global ad blocker usage is around 42.7% for all internet users." So, almost half of people online use adblockers. I know some use adblockers that have white lists. Everyone should use uBlock Origin as it does not have white lists to allow "some" ads and it is the best adblocker and protectio…

Sounds didactic What about uMatrix; some might argue it is even better than uBlock Origin, at least one can use both at the same time; if "security issues" are a concern, the so-called "modern" browser is a gigantic target that sources and runs Javascript from the internet automatically; there is also the choice of not using one (hence no need for uBlock or other extensions); Javascript isn't required for downloading…

9 years ago:

https://www.cnbc.com/2016/09/14/adblock-plus-defends-new-whi...

Estimated 198 million people using ad blockers

The sluggishness of the www without an ad blocker, not to mention the extent of the surveillance, has only gotten worse in the last 9 years

What is the number of ad blocker users today

But there are many ways to avoid ads; "ad blockers" are only way

Users have choices

Ad blockers are tied to the so-called "modern" browser coupled with "browser extensions"; some "modern" browser users might be running in guest mode where extensions are not allowed

These browsers and extensions come with inherent trust and "security" issues

The so-called "modern" browser is so large and complex that users generally do not edit or compile it themselves

If there is something about the software they do not like, then they do not remove it and recompile; instead they may complain via online comments, or in the case of a small few, write "browser extensions"

As it happens, the source code and compilation of these "modern" browsers is generally controlled by corporations, their business partners or competitors, that each have a financial interest in internet advertising services

Whomever controls the source code for the browser can disable browser extensions; this was recently illustrated when Google disabled uBlock Origin (cf. "uBlock Origin Lite") in Chrome

uBlock and other ad blockers rely on "blacklists" or "blocklists"

These lists try to predict every possible domainname or IP address that is an ad server, tracker, telemetry endpoint, etc.

The number of domainnames and IP addresses associated with ads, tracking and telemetry is not fixed, it is very large and constantly changing

Generally it is unlikely any single www/mobile user will encounter all of the servers listed during their lifetime

Nevertheless the ad blocker will "auto-update" and download these lists

The user is unlikely to review these lists; for those that do, some might find there are some shocking domains in these lists

Every user is different

Another method of avoiding ads is via "DNS blocklists"

It has the advantage of not requiring a so-called "modern" browser or extensions

It can also use wildcards

But it suffers from the same problems as the blocklists used by ad blockers mentioned above

In addition, it is susceptible to "CNAME cloaking", which required changes to ad blockers and other methods using blocklists

https://petsymposium.org/popets/2021/popets-2021-0053.pdf

There are other methods to avoid ads that are neither "ad blockers" nor "DNS blocklists"

For example, it is possible to avoid ads using DNS without using "blocklists"

The user simply determines what domainname and IP addresses they want to visit and places them in a root.zone file^1

The user serves this zone to all their computers

There is no recursion, no need for a forwarder like dnsmasq/pi-hole, no need for a cache like unbound, etc. and certainly no need for third party DNS service like NextDNS

There is no "CNAME cloaking" problem

This is a "root" authoritative nameserver run by the user

(I have been using a custom root.zone for over 16 years)

By analogy it is common for personal computer users to adopt configurations for network firewalls (e.g., ipf, ipfs, netfilter, pf, npf, etc.) with default "deny all" rules that block all traffic by default; the computer user then specifically adds further rules to create exceptions to allow only the traffic that the user wants

The list of exceptions is arguably comparable to a "whitelist" or "allowlist"

Perhaps the important difference from the "whitelist" mentioned in the CNBC article is that this one is controlled by the computer owner, not the software developer or the advertiser

Personal computer owners using a default deny rule in a firewall config are not attempting to predict all possible src or dst addresses to which they do not want to connect, like ad blocker blocklist do

1. Over the years, the method of determining what names and addresses are needed to enjoy a set of

Re: YouTube steps up fight against ad blockers again

#99
post #14

"About 11% of YouTube users openly say they use ad blockers. Some communities report 40-60% of viewers use ad blockers. Overall global ad blocker usage is around 42.7% for all internet users." So, almost half of people online use adblockers. I know some use adblockers that have white lists. Everyone should use uBlock Origin as it does not have white lists to allow "some" ads and it is the best adblocker and protectio…

Sounds didactic What about uMatrix; some might argue it is even better than uBlock Origin, at least one can use both at the same time; if "security issues" are a concern, the so-called "modern" browser is a gigantic target that sources and runs Javascript from the internet automatically; there is also the choice of not using one (hence no need for uBlock or other extensions); Javascript isn't required for downloading…

uBlock Origin does not have anything like the uMatrix logger

Re: YouTube steps up fight against ad blockers again

#100
post #10
post #8

I wonder what is the proportion of users using an adblocker I saw around me that many people are fine with ads, so I don't think it's much of a problem for YouTube I read that people with either adhd or in the autism spectrum cannot tolerate ads.

"I read that people with either adhd or in the autism spectrum cannot tolerate ads." where you read that?

https://www.reddit.com/r/me_irl/comments/1mrp58k/me_irl/

saw this meme

I think the article is quite old?

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