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Who Invented Backpropagation?

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91–100 of 120 posts

Re: Who Invented Backpropagation?

#91
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Who cares if it is low effort? It's a weird thing to wonder after so many people expressed their dislike of the upthread low-effort comment with a down vote (and then another voiced a more explicit opinion). The point is that a reader may want to know that the text they're reading is something a human took the time to write themselves. That fact is what makes it valuable. > pncnmnp seems happy They just haven't com…

> The point is that a reader may want to know that the text they're reading is something a human took the time to write themselves. The reader may also simply want information that helps them. > They just haven't commented. Yes, they did.

> The reader may also simply want information that helps them.

The reader will generally want at least a cursory verification that it is information that helps, which dataflow didn't try to do.

Especially when you're looking for specific documents and you don't check if the documents are real. (dataflow's third one doesn't appear to be.)

Re: Who Invented Backpropagation?

#92
post #60

I've always found it rather crazy that the power of backpropagation and artificial neural networks was doubted by AI researchers for so long. It's really only since the early 2010s that researchers started to take the field seriously. This is despite the core algorithm (backpropagation) being known for decades. I remember when I learnt about artificial neural networks at university in the late 00s my professors were…

> I remember when I first learnt about neural networks I thought maybe coupling them with some kind of evolutionary approach might be what was needed to make them work.

I did this in an artificial life simulation. It was pretty fun to see the creatures change from pure random bouncing around to movement that helped them get food and move away from something eating them.

My naive vision was all kinds of advanced movement, like hiding around corners for prey, but it never got close to something like that.

As I worked the evolutionary parameters I began to realize more and more that the process of evolving specific advanced traits requires lots of time and (I think) environmental complexity and compartmentalization of groups of creatures.

There are lots of simple/dumb capabilities that help with survival and they are much much easier to acquire than a more advanced capability like being aware of other creatures and tracking it's movement on the other side of an obstacle.

Re: Who Invented Backpropagation?

#93
The real essence of the piece is that Leibnitz did not schmidhuber [0] Seppo Linnainma (probably because he was dead at the time). Actually it is a nice piece and I was really happy to get my expectations fulfilled when reading to the very end.

[0] https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=schmidhubere...

Re: Who Invented Backpropagation?

#95
post #29

Whatever the facts, the OP comes across as sour grapes . The author, Jürgen Schmidhuber, believes Hopfield and Hinton did not deserve their Nobel Prize in Physics, and that Hinton, Bengio, and LeCun did not deserve their Turing Award. Evidently, many other scientists disagree, because both awards were granted in consultation with the scientific community. Schmidhuber's own work was, in fact, cited by the Nobel Prize…

granted, this goes way back before the Nobel and isn't limited to the trio above. JS is known for frequently and publicly challenging anyone who presents anything on neural networks. He was pestering Ian Goodfellow about who did GANs first in a NEURIPS tutorial in 2016, amongst others

Re: Who Invented Backpropagation?

#96
post #93

The real essence of the piece is that Leibnitz did not schmidhuber [0] Seppo Linnainma (probably because he was dead at the time). Actually it is a nice piece and I was really happy to get my expectations fulfilled when reading to the very end. [0] https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=schmidhubere...

dear lord he's in urban dictionary now?!

Re: Who Invented Backpropagation?

#97
post #8

I have a question that's bothered me for quite a while now. In 2018, Michael Jordan (UC Berkeley) wrote a rather interesting essay - https://medium.com/@mijordan3/artificial-intelligence-the-re... (Artificial Intelligence — The Revolution Hasn’t Happened Yet) In it, he stated the following: > Indeed, the famous “backpropagation” algorithm that was rediscovered by David Rumelhart in the early 1980s, and which is now v…

It is in Applied Optimal Control by Bryson and Ho (1969). Yann LeCun acknowledges this in his 1989 paper on backpropagation:https://new.math.uiuc.edu/MathMLseminar/seminarPapers/LeCunB....

> "Since his first work on the subject, the author has found that A. Bryson and Y.-C. Ho [Bryson and Ho, 1969] described the backpropagation algorithm using Lagrange formalism. Although their description was, of course, within the framework of optimal control rather than machine learning, the resulting procedure is identical to backpropagation."

Re: Who Invented Backpropagation?

#98

Despite the common refrain about how different symbolic differentiation and AD are, they are actually the same thing.

Not at all.

There are mainly 2 forms of AD: forward mode (optimal when the function being differentiated has more outputs than latent parameter inputs) and reverse mode (when it has more latent parameter inputs than outputs). If you don't understand why, you don't understand AD.

If you understand AD, you'd know why, but then you'd also see a huge difference with symbolic differentiation. In symbolic differentiation, input is an expression or DAG, the variables being computed along the way are similar such symbolic expressions (typically computed in reverse order in high school or uni, so the expression would grow exponentially with each deeper nested function, and only at the end are the input coordinates filled into the final expression, to end up with the gradient). Both forward and reverse mode have numeric variables being calculated, not symbolic expressions.

The third "option" is numeric differentiation, but for N latent parameter inputs this requires (N+1) forward evaluations: N of the function f(x1,x2,..., xi + delta, ..., xN) and 1 reference evaluation at f(x1, ..., xN). Picking a smaller delta makes it closer to a real gradient assuming infinite precision, but in practice there will be irregular rounding near the pseudo "infinitesimal" values of real world floats; alternatively take delta big enough, but then its no longer the theoretical gradient.

So symbolic differentiation was destined to fail due to ever increasing symbolic expression length (the chain rule).

Numeric differentiation was destined to fail due to imprecise gradient computation and huge amounts (N+1, many billions for current models) of forward passes to get a single (!) gradient.

AD gives the theoretically correct result with a single forward and backward pass (as opposed to N+1 passes), without requiring billions of passes, or lots of storage to store strings of formulas.

Re: Who Invented Backpropagation?

#99
post #2

TIL that the same Shun'ichi Amari who founded information geometry also made early advances to gradient descent.

Today You Learn that the same Shun'ichi Amari who founded information geometry also made early advances to autodifferentiation.

Iterating gradient descent is much, much older, and immediately recognized upon defining what a gradient is (regardless of how one computes this gradient).

AD vs { symbolic differentiation, numeric finite "differentiation" } is about the insight how to compute a numeric gradient efficiently both in terms of (space) memory and time (compute) requirements.

Re: Who Invented Backpropagation?

#100

Despite the common refrain about how different symbolic differentiation and AD are, they are actually the same thing.

Not at all. There are mainly 2 forms of AD: forward mode (optimal when the function being differentiated has more outputs than latent parameter inputs) and reverse mode (when it has more latent parameter inputs than outputs). If you don't understand why, you don't understand AD. If you understand AD, you'd know why, but then you'd also see a huge difference with symbolic differentiation . In symbolic differentiation,…

I simply do not agree that you are making a real distinction and I think comments like "If you don't understand why, you don't understand AD" are rude.

AD is just simple application of the pushbacks/pullforwards from differential geometry that are just the chain rule. It is important to distinguish between a mathematical concept and a particular algorithm/computation for implementing it. The symbolic manipulation with an 'exponentially growing nested function' is a particular way of applying the chain rule, but it is not the only way.

The problem you describe with symbolic differentiation (exponential growth of expressions) is not inherent to symbolic differentiation itself, but to a particular naïve implementation. If you represent computations as DAGs and apply common subexpression elimination, the blow-up you mention can be avoided. In fact, forward- and reverse-mode AD can be viewed as particular algorithmic choices for evaluating the same derivative information that symbolic differentiation encodes. If you represent your function as a DAG and propagate pushforwards/pullbacks, you’ve already avoided swell

https://emilien.ca/Notes/Notes/notes/1904.02990v4.pdf

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