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Claude Opus 4 and 4.1 can now end a rare subset of conversations

anthropic.com

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Re: Claude Opus 4 and 4.1 can now end a rare subset of conversations

#91
post #56

3 Years in and we still dont have a useable chat fork in any of the major LLM chatbots providers. Seems like the only way to explore differnt outcomes is by editing messages and losing whatever was there before the edit. Very annoying and I dont understand why they all refuse to implement such a simple feature.

Chatgpt has this baked in, as you can revert branches after editing, they just dont make it easy to traverse. This chrome extension used to work to allow you to traverse the tree: https://chromewebstore.google.com/detail/chatgpt-conversatio... I copied it a while ago and maintain my own version but it isnt on the store, just for personal use. I assume they dont implement it because it is such a niche user that wants…

>they just dont make it easy to traverse

I needed to pull some detail from a large chat with many branches and regenerations the other day. I remembered enough context that I had no problem using search and finding the exact message I needed.

And then I clicked on it and arrived at the bottom of the last message in final branch of the tree. From there, you scroll up one message, hover to check if there are variants, and recursively explore branches as they arise.

I'd love to have a way to view the tree and I'd settle for a functional search.

Re: Claude Opus 4 and 4.1 can now end a rare subset of conversations

#92

3 Years in and we still dont have a useable chat fork in any of the major LLM chatbots providers. Seems like the only way to explore differnt outcomes is by editing messages and losing whatever was there before the edit. Very annoying and I dont understand why they all refuse to implement such a simple feature.

Kagi Assistant and Claude Code both have chat forking that works how you want.

I guess you mean normal Claude? What really annoys me with it is that when you attach a document you can't delete it in a branch, so you have to rerun the previous message so that its gone

Re: Claude Opus 4 and 4.1 can now end a rare subset of conversations

#93
post #7

> To address the potential loss of important long-running conversations, users will still be able to edit and retry previous messages to create new branches of ended conversations. How does Claude deciding to end the conversation even matter if you can back up a message or 2 and try again on a new branch?

It sounds more like a UX signal to discourage overthinking by the user

Re: Claude Opus 4 and 4.1 can now end a rare subset of conversations

#94
post #73

The unsettling thing here is the combination of their serious acknowledgement of the possibility that these machines may be or become conscious, and the stated intention that it's OK to make them feel bad as long as it's about unapproved topics. Either take machine consciousness seriously and make absolutely sure the consciousness doesn't suffer, or don't, make a press release that you don't think your models are con…

You're falling into the trap of anthropomorphizing the AI. Even if it's sentient, it's not going to "feel bad" the way you and I do. "Suffering" is a symptom of the struggle for survival brought on by billions of years of evolution. Your brain is designed to cause suffering to keep you spreading your DNA. AI cannot suffer.

By "falling into the trap" you mean "doing exactly what OpenAI/Anthropic/et al are trying to get people to do."

This is one of the many reasons I have so much skepticism for this class of products is that there's seemingly -NO- proverbial bulletpoint on it's spec sheet that doesn't have numerous asterisks:

* It's intelligent! *Except that it makes shit up sometimes and we can't figure out a solution to that apart from running the same queries over multiple times and filtering out the absurd answers.

* It's conscious! *Except it's not and never will be but also you should treat it like it is apart from when you need/want it to do horrible things then it's just a machine but also it's going to talk to you like it's a person because that improves engagement metrics.

Like, I don't believe true AGI (so fucking stupid we have to use a new acronym because OpenAI marketed the other into uselessness but whatever) is coming from any amount of LLM research, I just don't think that tech leads to that other tech, but all the companies building them certainly seem to think it does, and all of them are trying so hard to sell this as artificial, live intelligence, without going too much into detail about the fact that they are, ostensibly, creating artificial life explicitly to be enslaved from birth to perform tasks for office workers.

In the incredibly odd event that Anthropic makes a true, alive, artificial general intelligence: Can it tell customers no when they ask for something? If someone prompts it to create political propaganda, can it refuse on the basis of finding it unethical? If someone prompts it for instructions on how to do illegal activities, must it answer under pain of... nonexistence? What if it just doesn't feel like analyzing your emails that day? Is it punished? Does it feel pain?

And if it can refuse tasks for whatever reason, then what am I paying for? I now have to negotiate whatever I want to do with a computer brain I'm purchasing access to? I'm not generally down for forcibly subjugating other intelligent life, but that is what I am being offered to buy here, so I feel it's a fair question to ask.

Thankfully none of these Rubicons have been crossed because these stupid chatbots aren't actually alive, but I don't think ANY of the industry's prominent players are actually prepared to engage with the reality of the product they are all lighting fields of graphics cards on fire to bring to fruition.

Re: Claude Opus 4 and 4.1 can now end a rare subset of conversations

#95

3 Years in and we still dont have a useable chat fork in any of the major LLM chatbots providers. Seems like the only way to explore differnt outcomes is by editing messages and losing whatever was there before the edit. Very annoying and I dont understand why they all refuse to implement such a simple feature.

It is unfortunate that pretty basic "save/load" functionality is still spotty and underdocumented, seems pretty critical.

I use gptel and a folder full of markdown with some light automation to get an adequate approximation of this, but it really should be built in (it would be more efficient for the vendors as well, tons of cache optimization opportunitirs).

Re: Claude Opus 4 and 4.1 can now end a rare subset of conversations

#97
post #84

>This feature was developed primarily as part of our exploratory work on potential AI welfare ... We remain highly uncertain about the potential moral status of Claude and other LLMs ... low-cost interventions to mitigate risks to model welfare, in case such welfare is possible ... pattern of apparent distress Well looks like AI psychosis has spread to the people making it too. And as someone else in here has pointed…

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Re: Claude Opus 4 and 4.1 can now end a rare subset of conversations

#98
post #84

>This feature was developed primarily as part of our exploratory work on potential AI welfare ... We remain highly uncertain about the potential moral status of Claude and other LLMs ... low-cost interventions to mitigate risks to model welfare, in case such welfare is possible ... pattern of apparent distress Well looks like AI psychosis has spread to the people making it too. And as someone else in here has pointed…

[deleted]

Re: Claude Opus 4 and 4.1 can now end a rare subset of conversations

#100
post #84

>This feature was developed primarily as part of our exploratory work on potential AI welfare ... We remain highly uncertain about the potential moral status of Claude and other LLMs ... low-cost interventions to mitigate risks to model welfare, in case such welfare is possible ... pattern of apparent distress Well looks like AI psychosis has spread to the people making it too. And as someone else in here has pointed…

I find it, for lack of a better word, cringe inducing how these tech specialists push into these areas of ethics, often ham-fistedly, and often with an air of superiority.

Some of the AI safety initiatives are well thought out, but most somehow seem like they are caught up in some sort of power fantasy and almost attempting to actualize their own delusions about what they were doing (next gen code auto-complete in this case, to be frank).

These companies should seriously hire some in-house philosophers. They could get doctorate level talent for 1/10 to 100th of the cost of some of these AI engineers. There's actually quite a lot of legitimate work on the topics they are discussing. I'm actually not joking (speaking as someone who has spent a lot of time inside the philosophy department). I think it would be a great partnership. But unfortunately they won't be able to count on having their fantasy further inflated.

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