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When the CIA got away with building a heart attack gun

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Re: When the CIA got away with building a heart attack gun

#91

Post by godelski »

os2warpman wrote: post #86
dmix wrote: post #7

This article is about the Church Committee, if you're interested in the heart attack gun see: https://allthatsinteresting.com/heart-attack-gun Also it's interesting to note how Russia doesn't use a gun like this, they spike drinks/food or spray it on surfaces like doorknobs.

There is no evidence the heart attack gun ever existed. Every description of it is ludicrous. >here, researchers under Dr. Nathan Gordon, a CIA chemist, mixed shellfish toxin with water and froze the mixture into a small pellet or dart. The finished projectile would be fired from a modified Colt M1911 pistol equipped with an electrical firing mechanism. It had an effective range of 100 meters and was virtually noisel…

It's good to remember that these agencies do put false reports in with official docs. Some you purposefully leak to the enemy (like encourage a known mole to "find" them) and then your enemy doesn't know what's fact from fiction. You also plant false reports to detect moles because specific fantasies are only available to specific groups.

Is anyone surprised a organization focused on disinformation is... good at disinformation? I'm sure they sold tons of fantasies to Church and made the best of the situation. That Church quote (If a dictator took charge) seems like the greatest publicity the CIA could ever hope for. They wanted the Russians to be paranoid and really everyone to be paranoid. And here is a US senator saying the CIA can get you wherever you are and you'd never know? That's exactly what they want you to believe! That they are omniscient and omnipotent.

The problem I have with all these conspiracies is that they don't take a second to realize that these agencies want you to believe in conspiracies. We talk all the time about misinformation, disinformation, and malinformation yet when something fancifulness like UFOs or untraceable weapons pop up everyone is all too happy to believe. It is especially true for those who believe the government is lying to us. Why does no one ever consider that just another lie is being told? The problem with intelligence agencies is you can't believe anything they say, you need strong proof and to always be second guessing. Which is the entire point, to overload you and get you to believe a lie.

Re: When the CIA got away with building a heart attack gun

#92

Post by aeve890 »

juniperus wrote: post #77
almostbasic wrote: post #3

It really makes you wonder what other weapons they have that we don't know about.

There are weapons that can permanently paralyze an entire city. Not paralyze infrastructure or traffic... but permanent incurable paralysis of all the people in any area exposed to the weapon. That is still a 20th century technology.

Of course there are. I learned about that reading the works of Milo Rambaldi.

Re: When the CIA got away with building a heart attack gun

#93

Post by cryptonector »

arresin wrote: post #88
cryptonector wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be effective to 100m it would have to have near rifle muzzle velocities, and that would _not_ be "virtually noiseless" because that would be mach 2 or higher, and anything supersonic makes a loud crack. So if it was subsonic then the bullet drop at 100m would be at least a foot and a half. Wind would make its accuracy terrible enough, but then consider how you might stabilize a bullet made of ice... (I know it was…

It’s of course bogus. But why? What would be the point?

That requires speculation as to motives and such. Maybe the CIA wanted to show something nefarious-seeming to distract from actually nefarious things.

Re: When the CIA got away with building a heart attack gun

#94

Post by rurban »

culi wrote: post #40
almostbasic wrote: post #3

It really makes you wonder what other weapons they have that we don't know about.

Almost certainly, Havana Syndrome. Caused by a (microwave-, possibly) weapon that can lead to permanent neurological symptoms. And the US is not the only country that has it but is expanding a lot of energy into making the media talk about it less. CHUPPL did a great investigation on it if you're interested https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Havana_syndrome https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqE0ltifQ2M

Those microwave attacks by spies are known since at least the sixties if you care to read some CIA leaker books. What's new is that those attacks became public, even if they didn't name and shame the attackers yet, if Chinese or Russians.

Re: When the CIA got away with building a heart attack gun

#95

Post by lupusreal »

cryptonector wrote: post #66
Alive-in-2025 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a zillion ways to kill people in slow ways. Put poison that is slow acting in restaurant food - that's harder than just a single shot with some gun. Cancer causing substances in their house water that you later remove the source of (let's not figure millions of people have unsafe drinking water just on the ordinary day in the us).

Probably much easier than using the heart attack gun! That thing did not have a very long range, and almost certainly did not have great accuracy, so its use would have been conspicuous. Sure, it's not easy to arrange to have an agent as a server or cook at some restaurant, but it surely is easier.

Another problem I have with the heart attack gun; why did they make it look like a gun? I agree that the assassin would have to be close to the target to use it, so making it look like an obvious gun risks somebody getting a glimpse of it and immediately raising an alarm. A more discrete shape would make infinitely more sense.

Re: When the CIA got away with building a heart attack gun

#96

Post by yupyupyups »

lyu07282 wrote: post #73
yupyupyups wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That one was so famous that people actually tried it out and eventually debunked it. The US establishment, just like any other state engages in propaganda. Like the whole thing about Russia being able to nuke the entire world 1337 times over. All of these claims need to be taken with a grain of salt.

> "We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false" I think they succeeded awhile ago already with that

Sure, then you should provide evidence for that. Otherwise, anyone could claim anything.

Re: When the CIA got away with building a heart attack gun

#97

Post by lyu07282 »

yupyupyups wrote: post #96
lyu07282 wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false" I think they succeeded awhile ago already with that

Sure, then you should provide evidence for that. Otherwise, anyone could claim anything.

You wouldn't believe it obviously, that's the point. It's like who started the cuban missile crisis? It was the US placing nukes in Italy and Turkey, how many Americans know that? Everything is like that. Why did 9/11 happen? They just hate our freedom. Et al

Re: When the CIA got away with building a heart attack gun

#98

Post by cryptonector »

lupusreal wrote: post #95
cryptonector wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably much easier than using the heart attack gun! That thing did not have a very long range, and almost certainly did not have great accuracy, so its use would have been conspicuous. Sure, it's not easy to arrange to have an agent as a server or cook at some restaurant, but it surely is easier.

Another problem I have with the heart attack gun; why did they make it look like a gun? I agree that the assassin would have to be close to the target to use it, so making it look like an obvious gun risks somebody getting a glimpse of it and immediately raising an alarm. A more discrete shape would make infinitely more sense.

Indeed, why not make it more like a more discreet version of an epi pen? Like the ricin umbrella, but a bit more subtle.

Re: When the CIA got away with building a heart attack gun

#99

Post by culi »

gruez wrote: post #63
culi wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Almost certainly, Havana Syndrome. Caused by a (microwave-, possibly) weapon that can lead to permanent neurological symptoms. And the US is not the only country that has it but is expanding a lot of energy into making the media talk about it less. CHUPPL did a great investigation on it if you're interested https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Havana_syndrome https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqE0ltifQ2M

Your linked article admits it might not even be real. >A 2023 review article written by Bartholomew and Baloh concluded that Havana syndrome was erroneously classified as a novel entity due to a moral panic based on the fear of foreign entities such as the Russians or Cubans attacking the U.S, the over-interpretation of data, misconceptions about psychogenic illness, and coverage and leaks by the media. The authors s…

That "linked article" is Wikipedia. The second link is an actual investigation which goes into good detail debunking and investigating the source behind claims that it's a social psychogenic illness
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