Blood oxygen monitoring returning to Apple Watch in the US • Hacker News Board

Re: Blood oxygen monitoring returning to Apple Watch in the US

#91

Post by tialaramex » Thu, Aug 14, 2025, 5:42 PM UTC

skadamou wrote: post #57

jeffbee wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn't you already be super dead with a true reading of 80? Or at least unable to cognitively interpret the reading?

That's definitely a danger zone for healthy people but interestingly enough people with things like COPD may have a blood oxygen level in the 80s and while that is indicative of the disease, they may be totally stable and may not even need oxygen [1]. [1] https://www.drugs.com/medical-answers/normal-oxygen-level-so...

My grandmother's heart was completely fucked, so they'd have to adjust the alarms on the hospital monitors after checking their files when she went in. It's like "OK, well that's the problem... consults notes... Nope, apparently that is normal for her, now lets figure out what's actually wrong". It wasn't keeping regular time and it would sometimes skip, but apparently it was pumping well enough to keep her alive for several years.

Normal in humans is definitely relative and medicine has tended to assume that if we average 1000 humans (in too many cases, 1000 white college age men) that's what human normal is, which is crazy even beyond obvious problems like " people normally have 1.999 legs apparently".

Re: Blood oxygen monitoring returning to Apple Watch in the US

#92

Post by iamdanieljohns » Thu, Aug 14, 2025, 5:42 PM UTC

exabrial wrote: post #39

throwaway303293 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In contrast my Garmin and finger pulseox match exactly.

Yep, my Garmin also has matched the doctors office instrument to the 1% every time.

Which model do you have?

Re: Blood oxygen monitoring returning to Apple Watch in the US

#93

Post by mrcwinn » Thu, Aug 14, 2025, 5:44 PM UTC

spogbiper wrote: post #16

thebruce87m wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds good for the employees, so go Apple?

Yes, very good for the employees. Apple even offered them 2x their salaries to leave Masimo.

(I couldn't reply down another level.)

>How HN can support monopolization of markets and killing of [sic] competition is beyond me.

That suggests HN is a monoculture of some sort of united front. It is not. Diversity of opinion is best for this community (and all communities).

And, sorry, what competition was killed off here? I, as the consumer, was never considering Massimo for my blood oxygen measurement needs. I bought an Apple Watch and just want it to be as feature-full as possible. So does Apple.

Re: Blood oxygen monitoring returning to Apple Watch in the US

#94

Post by alternatex » Thu, Aug 14, 2025, 5:49 PM UTC

mauvehaus wrote: post #56

throwaway303293 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In contrast my Garmin and finger pulseox match exactly.

I don't know what Garmin you have, but I'm about half convinced that my Instinct's heart rate measurement is implemented by a PRNG. It's frequently off by 50% from a count/time cross-check. It does not inspire me to move up their range when this watch eventually dies: if they can't get the basic feature working, I have a hard time seeing how they're going to manage anything trickier.

Accuracy varies wildly with each model. Obviously the more expensive ($400+) ones are better, but Garmin devices are generally good with heart rate tracking. Same for Apple watch, Pixel watch, and a few cheaper options from Huawei and Xiaomi.

Re: Blood oxygen monitoring returning to Apple Watch in the US

#95

Post by hbn » Thu, Aug 14, 2025, 5:50 PM UTC

FirmwareBurner wrote: post #83

spogbiper wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, very good for the employees. Apple even offered them 2x their salaries to leave Masimo.

Yes "very good", until Apple decides to mass-layoff them, because now, owning the valuable core IP and having killed their primary competitor in the field, Apple can do whatever they want and get away with it because those employees have nowhere else to go in the area. 200+ IQ move . How people on HN can support monopolization of markets and killing of competition is beyond me, since in the end it always bites them i…

Let's not forget Masimo picked the fight. Apple was fine letting them compete.

Re: Blood oxygen monitoring returning to Apple Watch in the US

#96

Post by eitally » Thu, Aug 14, 2025, 5:52 PM UTC

runako wrote: post #77

boringg wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow you must work for a company with incredibly deep pockets. No way can massimo compete on salary with apple. Only people in the game who can do that are google facebook apple chatgpt etc.

Masimo was worth ~$16B when this was going down. They are worth $8B today. This is roughly the size of American Airlines. Masimo is not the biggest company, but they are a large publicly-traded company. The company does $2B in revenue and spends close to $800 million annually in sales, general and admin. This is over 3x their R&D budget. (For reference, Apple's R&D spend is higher than its SG&A spend.) Per levels.fyi…

I disagree with your assertion that Masimo has the money to compete. Apple's upside to employing these folks to build the tech into the Apple Watch is FAR, FAR greater than Masimo's potential sales growth for existing pulse ox devices (or patent licenses). With Apple Watches being licensed as medical devices for ECG & pulse ox, this gives clinicians even more reason to leverage them with patients for convenient 24/7 home monitoring. It's not the same market Masimo is serving, at all.

Re: Blood oxygen monitoring returning to Apple Watch in the US

#97

Post by op00to » Thu, Aug 14, 2025, 5:53 PM UTC

jeffbee wrote: post #46

neild wrote: post #29

In my experience, the Apple Watch blood oxygen monitoring was horribly inaccurate. It would report wildly variable results, often telling me that I had a blood oxygen level of 80% (which, if true, would indicate that I should be getting myself to an emergency room ASAP). Regular pulse oxygen meters are cheap and reliable.

Wouldn't you already be super dead with a true reading of 80? Or at least unable to cognitively interpret the reading?

I had some momentary readings lower than 80 during a sleep study prior to going on CPAP. I didn't snore, or choke, or anything. Just ... didn't breathe. With CPAP, 98% all the time.

Re: Blood oxygen monitoring returning to Apple Watch in the US

#98

Post by lotsofpulp » Thu, Aug 14, 2025, 5:54 PM UTC

OkayPhysicist wrote: post #82

gibolt wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I generally agree, but the company likely doesn't have those funds. Considering the largest player (Apple) stands to make way more from it than you and just works around your patent. Not arguing Apple shouldn't poach, just that your suggestion doesn't work.

The company made a billion dollars in profit last year. I doubt Apple was willing to pay anywhere near that amount to hire an employee.

They did not earn $1B in profit in the last year. Or 5.

https://companiesmarketcap.com/masimo/earnings/

https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/MASI/masimo/net-in...

Re: Blood oxygen monitoring returning to Apple Watch in the US

#99

Post by eddieroger » Thu, Aug 14, 2025, 5:55 PM UTC

FirmwareBurner wrote: post #83

spogbiper wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, very good for the employees. Apple even offered them 2x their salaries to leave Masimo.

Yes "very good", until Apple decides to mass-layoff them, because now, owning the valuable core IP and having killed their primary competitor in the field, Apple can do whatever they want and get away with it because those employees have nowhere else to go in the area. 200+ IQ move . How people on HN can support monopolization of markets and killing of competition is beyond me, since in the end it always bites them i…

Masimo does so much more than consumer-worn heart rate monitors and O2 sensors. They'll be fine as well.

Re: Blood oxygen monitoring returning to Apple Watch in the US

#100

Post by geodel » Thu, Aug 14, 2025, 5:56 PM UTC

scarface_74 wrote: post #43

krferriter wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good for everyone except whoever had money invested in Masimo

Similar to what HNers are so happy to say about restaurant owners who actually have to be profitable and can’t depend on the largess of investors, if Masimo can’t afford to pay market rates to developers, the company doesn’t deserve to exist.

Right. Somehow people here are struggling on how to pin blame on Apple even when developers are better off with Apple's offer. It is a great outcome for anyone who is developer.

If in their world view "best developer salary is not always the best thing" one could have better reasoning for supporting little guy Massimo getting crushed by Apple.