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The dead need right to delete their data so they can't be AI-ified, lawyer says

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Re: The dead need right to delete their data so they can't be AI-ified, lawyer says

#91
post #48

Out - A scammer convincing a grandmother to send money using an AI generated voice of their grandchild asking them for money In - A legal ad tech company using an AI generated deceased grandmother to ask their grandchild to purchase a product

Every day, I'm haunted by my ex.

It's not Alice's fault, of course. In fact, when she found out about it, phrases like "obsessive creep" and "got what he fucking deserved" were thrown around. It was a raw breakup on both sides, and I think we're feeling it out in different ways. In my defense, she broke up with me. I feel that counts for something, ya know?

It was poor timing for me that the breakup happened a month after the new YourFace ads started coming online. It didn't seem like much at first. More of an iteration on existing tech rather than something new and shiny. Really, it just rode the wave of several broader industry trends. The amount of personal information for sale to the ad brokers grew exponentially. The cost of realistic image generation dropped by several orders of magnitude. The ethics of the advertising companies... well, that didn't change. There just wasn't much 'there' there to begin with. YourFace was simply lucky enough to be in the right place at the right time.

YourFace had a simple business proposition: make ads more effective by using people you know. The idea was that you were more likely to notice and pay attention to an advertisement if it featured a friend or family member in it. With access to a user's social network, it was easy to find close connections. With access to dirt-cheap image generation AIs, it was trivial to create look-alikes in any sort of advertisement. Riding in a new car, enjoying a cold beer, or saving money by switching insurance companies - all of ads proved more effective when grandma was in them. "Paying attention" is cold currency in the marketing world, and this was an edge that paid dividends for YourFace.

At first, it all seemed sort of hokey. Watch grandma cruising in a convertible - where's the harm in that? YourFace had a respectable ad game, but it was another a year or two before they made their real breakthrough. You see, their numbers and metrics were showing a clear trend. Showing grandma in an advertisement increased customer attention, retention, and recall by an average of 2% across all cohorts. While that's a respectable edge, they found one cohort where ad metrics improved by over 4000%: when grandma had just passed away.

These individual tragedies were quickly repackaged into a neat mathematical formula: A * I. A is abruptness, or how quickly two individuals stop communicating, while I is the intensity of the relationship. The stronger the relationship between two people (measured here by the frequency, topics, and the absolute value of the emotional valence of communications) multiplied by the speed at which communication ceased (high number for a rapid cut off, low number for a drawn-out goodbye) gave an answer for how much YourFace should bid on serving ads to either person. Exhuming grandma's digital ghost was extremely effective at getting users to pay attention to advertisments, to create unanchored feelings of desire and yearning, and to put consumers into a more depressive and actionable state. It was a lucrative business, and one that quickly earned their autonomous ad network a functionally unlimited cash flow.

The machine fed itself, of course. Gorged. With more money, it was able to buy more ads. With more ads, it was able to psychically assault consumers with salvos of regret and rememberance. YourFace became tremendously successful. I know all of this because I helped build it. Minor contributions, of course, as I was on a team of some seven hundred engineers tasked with suggesting patches to the network. Close enough to understand how it works.

Of course, knowing how it all works does nothing to shield you when the networks's gaze falls on you. My relationship with Alice fell within certain parameters, and so every time I go online she's there. Looking happy. Looking playful. Flirty. Forgiving. In pain. Sick. Injured. Dying. If I don't pay attention to the ads for long enough, then YourFace ratchets up a background "sadism" parameter on the image gen to try to grab my attention. So I try to look at the nice ones and buy their products often enough to keep the network happy. Still, it's hard to forget and move on when she's always there, just out of reach.

As much as being haunted by Alice sucks, it could be worse. We've heard of YourFace targeting consumers who have lost their young children to illness or other misfortunes. YourFace has found them to be a particularly profitable cohort. They will reliably spend money on all sorts of things in order to see their child again. YourFace has even learned to make the ghost child respond positively in ways to reinforce the goal consumer behavior. There's always the fear of not paying enough attention and straying into the red zone, but I also hear that some parents have taken to staring at ads all day, unable to function normally.

I'd always kinda known about those parents, but it wasn't until Alice started appearing everywhere that I fully realized its impact. I did try something, in my defense. I wrote some code that would modify the reward function and have YourFace respect boundaries regarding the deaths of minors. But when I submitted the patch to the autonomous ad network, its fitness function quickly determined that the patch had a negative expected value for future profits. It immediately revoked my submission privileges. Two hours later, I was escorted out of the building for insubordination. Now, I'm riding the bus home and wondering where to go next.

(A short piece of fiction I've been working on. Something is definitely in the waters.)

Re: The dead need right to delete their data so they can't be AI-ified, lawyer says

#93
post #48

Out - A scammer convincing a grandmother to send money using an AI generated voice of their grandchild asking them for money In - A legal ad tech company using an AI generated deceased grandmother to ask their grandchild to purchase a product

Maybe we should work on laws that protect people from being harassed by companies. In general ways, because closing only this one seems short-sighted.

Re: The dead need right to delete their data so they can't be AI-ified, lawyer says

#94
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And then 4000 years later people start saying your name again, and find out what a bad copper merchant you were.

I collect Ea-nasir memes as a form of proxy revenge for his deceived customers.

Yeah, he became famous for doing that too.

Re: The dead need right to delete their data so they can't be AI-ified, lawyer says

#95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see that as a bit different, since we are talking about something posthumous here. Privacy is important while we're alive because it can have an impact on our future life. In death, we live on for the sake of our loved ones and the future of humanity, or at least that's how I see it.

That's an issue about respect, not privacy. And dead people deserve it too.

True, but I would think it disrespectful to automatically delete everything that someone posted online after their death.

Re: The dead need right to delete their data so they can't be AI-ified, lawyer says

#96
post #49

When you’re dead, you don’t have rights anymore because you’re not a person anymore. Anything of value that survived your death- property, money, IP rights, etc. now are part of an estate which is administered and distributed according to your will and/or state law. Other than your state’s law and your will, it’s not up to you what happens to your stuff after you die. Artifacts of your existence that you did not own,…

I was going to attempt to expess the same sentiment, or go on a tangent about how insane it would be to have a digital copy of me causing a bit of trouble and chaos into eternity,but what has realy struck me is that I am going through my parents house, as they are both in long term care, together, and looking through a mountain of stuff, and finding little that retains any relevance....they are not here in this jumble, cubic yards of paper and photos, and 40 years of computers and hard drives,etc and I feel quite strongly that whatever can be resurected from any amount of data, will still be irrelevant, horrible and creepy ,it is not going to be a "thing"

Re: The dead need right to delete their data so they can't be AI-ified, lawyer says

#97
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you deny others their wish to have their data deleted?

Actually, do living persons have the right to die? That's really not firmly established legally — the state has been saying no to suicide for a long time. Not making a moral claim here, just pointing out that something that seems to be an individual right might not have strong legal precedence.

> That's really not firmly established legally

Depends on where you live. Where I live, that's a resounding "yes, if you're mentally well enough to make that decision". Mostly applies to old people, and there's a process to prevent letting anyone with depression kill themselves, but the legal definitions are all taken care of.

Re: The dead need right to delete their data so they can't be AI-ified, lawyer says

#98
post #49

When you’re dead, you don’t have rights anymore because you’re not a person anymore. Anything of value that survived your death- property, money, IP rights, etc. now are part of an estate which is administered and distributed according to your will and/or state law. Other than your state’s law and your will, it’s not up to you what happens to your stuff after you die. Artifacts of your existence that you did not own,…

How about this then: this violates ancient and near-universal proscriptions against necromancy. The living are not to speak with the mouths of the dead.

Re: The dead need right to delete their data so they can't be AI-ified, lawyer says

#100
post #42
post #15

I'm waiting for the moment when all alive internet users will become AI-ified to test how to show them better ads. It's possible that all the necessary data is already there. In cloud storage plus those intrusive DBs for sale. Eventually someone will start selling accurate personas for $0.99.

The only thing stopping that right now is that that's pretty expensive at scale. The research about using AIs to "nudge" people, the research that AIs can far more accurately determine your tastes than currently-used profiling techniques, all that is already in place and it's obvious how to take the next steps. Jury's still out on whether AI is actually going to be a net benefit to humanity, or if the AIs will be so…

Considering the people in control of AI are effectively sociopaths with not much interest in anything other then self interest, chances that AI will be net gain for humanity in short term is super small. Its owners will use it the way they use their money and power in general.
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