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New executive order puts all grants under political control

arstechnica.com

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Re: New executive order puts all grants under political control

#91

Post by ulfw »

pfannkuchen wrote: post #3

I don’t really understand why so much of science is funded by the government instead of by private philanthropy. It seems like an obvious channel for corruption of science. Sure private donors have interest driven motives too but it would be diffuse across many areas not concentrated like a political party’s interests.

Because imagine just for the sake of discussion (I am well aware this is not possible. Just trying to make an extreme point. You could pick HIV or MS or Parking's or any other incurable disease) there was a magic pill that could cure cancer. You take it once a day for a week and any cancer is gone. Doesn't matter which cancer. All of them, gone for good. Magical!

Would would ANY private enterprise (i.e. pharmaceutical company) want to fund research that would enable that?

The immense money (the US spends over $200B a year in cancer 'treatments') that these companies would not be making anymore would deter any such research.

Same goes for many other scientific discoveries. Some are for the greater humanitarian good, not for private enterprise profit maximisation.

Re: New executive order puts all grants under political control

#92

Post by noelwelsh »

WillPostForFood wrote: post #78
ocschwar wrote: post #31

This ends science in the United States. You can't really enroll graduate students for a 5 year PHD project if their funding can be pulled at a moment's notice like this.

This ends science in the United States. Probably not. Grants were always under political control, right? This is just shifting political control from one part of a government agency to another part of the government agency.

The key phrase in the article is "political appointee". Previously, approval was by government employees who had expertise in the given field.

Re: New executive order puts all grants under political control

#93

Post by yoyohello13 »

dyauspitr wrote: post #71

I have no respect for republicans. Very hysterical people.

I truly cannot understand the people that support this administration. I know I certainly wouldn’t have chosen to defund education and healthcare while simultaneously running up the national dept to pay for a private police force loyal only to the president. I used to think there was some way to bridge the divide, but I just have no patience or respect for the other side anymore.

Re: New executive order puts all grants under political control

#94

Post by jjk166 »

pfannkuchen wrote: post #3

I don’t really understand why so much of science is funded by the government instead of by private philanthropy. It seems like an obvious channel for corruption of science. Sure private donors have interest driven motives too but it would be diffuse across many areas not concentrated like a political party’s interests.

The same reason bridges and aircraft carriers and public schools aren't funded by private philanthropy. Why am I paying taxes if not to fund things done for the public interest?

Re: New executive order puts all grants under political control

#95

Post by CalRobert »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #83
CalRobert wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True, they won’t pay PhD’s €28,000 a year either.

China is a pretty good place to be a scientists in certain fields. The pay is very competitive.

Yeah, I think what’s concerning is that it wasn’t obvious I meant 28k is obscenely low.

Re: New executive order puts all grants under political control

#96

Post by jjk166 »

WillPostForFood wrote: post #78
ocschwar wrote: post #31

This ends science in the United States. You can't really enroll graduate students for a 5 year PHD project if their funding can be pulled at a moment's notice like this.

This ends science in the United States. Probably not. Grants were always under political control, right? This is just shifting political control from one part of a government agency to another part of the government agency.

> Individual grants will also require clearance from a political appointee and "must, where applicable, demonstrably advance the President’s policy priorities."

> The order also instructs agencies to formalize the ability to cancel previously awarded grants at any time if they're considered to "no longer advance agency priorities."

Re: New executive order puts all grants under political control

#97

Post by wat10000 »

antonvs wrote: post #61
mindslight wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe I've unfairly judged him. Last I remember seeing was some pearl clutching about how Trump/Musk needed to "be careful" with what DOGE cut or something. I took that assumption of good faith as an indication of being in the reality distortion field, like too many other VCs are.

Money makes them vulnerable. They didn’t get to where they are without playing a conformance game. That limits the degree to which they can object to anything.

Money should make them less vulnerable. They can lose their job, be blacklisted, whatever, and still be fine. Not like the ordinary person where this would mean homelessness.

If they’re vulnerable, it’s the psychological need to keep adding to their pile of money that does it.

Re: New executive order puts all grants under political control

#98

Post by wat10000 »

63 wrote: post #44
hinkley wrote: post #42

How much of this shit is even legal?

We shall see. Undoubtedly much of this order will be challenged by some pretty powerful institutions and lawyers. Unfortunately, my confidence in the supreme court to uphold the fairest or least destructive interpretation of the law is at an all time low.

I know someone who lost their job in the recent cuts. They worked for a nonprofit funded by the government, and the funding was eliminated. It was challenged in court, and the government lost. They were ordered to restore funding. The person in charge of the funding just... didn’t pay. Legal or not, the money remained in the government’s accounts rather than the nonprofit’s, and the nonprofit shut down.

Until we have actual penalties for the people in charge, it doesn’t even matter whether the courts uphold this stuff or not.

Re: New executive order puts all grants under political control

#99

Post by v5v3 »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #83
CalRobert wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True, they won’t pay PhD’s €28,000 a year either.

China is a pretty good place to be a scientists in certain fields. The pay is very competitive.

Then why are all the Chinese origin AI Devs working in USA?
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