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Brennan Center for Justice Report: The Campaign to Undermine the Next Election

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Re: Brennan Center for Justice Report: The Campaign to Undermine the Next Election

#91

Post by fzeroracer »

jimbo808 wrote: post #70
fzeroracer wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing is, if you think about this for even two seconds you realize how hard it is to actually commit voting fraud. That's why most of the known fraud occurs not by individuals but by intermediaries 'losing' votes. If I say I'm John Doe at James Lane then you can trivially verify this in multiple ways. You can check the prior voting records, you can check the death records, you can check property information. If a…

It doesn't matter if you commit voting fraud. It matters that people are aware of the fact that voter identity is not verified. It undermines peoples' trust in the election process, and in democracy overall.

I just explained to you how voter identity is verified.

Re: Brennan Center for Justice Report: The Campaign to Undermine the Next Election

#92

Post by skoskie »

antonymoose wrote: post #13
buerkle wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Showing ID to vote wouldn't be controversial in the US if states made it easy to obtain a valid ID for the purpose. But states routinely use it as a backdoor mechanism to prevent people from voting.

In my state I bring two forms of ID and a couple of bills to the DMV and I’m issued a same-day license? How does that compare to a notoriously unfriendly nation like Germany? In any case, my understanding is virtually any nation in Central and South America requires identification to vote. If the third-world poverty stricken nations make it work there is no reason the rich United States cannot.

And in my state I needed more documentation for an ID than was required for my passport. It varies wildly.

Re: Brennan Center for Justice Report: The Campaign to Undermine the Next Election

#93

Post by hypeatei »

celeritascelery wrote: post #85
nerdponx wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.migrationpolicy.org/content/noncitizen-voting-us... > There is no evidence that unauthorized immigrants, green-card holders, or immigrants on temporary visas are voting in significant numbers, despite some claims that “millions” of noncitizens are voting in U.S. elections. In fact, audits by election officials and numerous studies reflect that voter fraud by noncitizens is extremely rare. > A [Heritage Fo…

It’s great that those organizations say it’s uncommon. But this shouldn’t even be an issue. It doesn’t take many votes to tip a close election. Requiring ID like every other country is the common sense thing to do. And it helps build confidence in the election process without the need for organizations to try and demonstrate that the election was legitimate after the fact.

Common sense isn't saying "oh there's no ID required at the polls? Illegals must be tipping elections", it's recognizing that there are armies of people auditing these elections each cycle. Irregularities are caught and people challenge results in court all the time. In practice, if you tried to commit voter fraud, I think you'd find it very hard to accomplish (especially if you're trying to change the outcome)

Even in your ideal scenario where ID is a hard requirement and nothing should slip through the cracks, you could still introduce doubt somewhere in the chain (e.g. did the poll worker actually check your ID?)

Re: Brennan Center for Justice Report: The Campaign to Undermine the Next Election

#94

Post by plorkyeran »

jimbo808 wrote: post #69
neaden wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But it works fine. There have been extensive efforts to find people voting illegally and it turns up a small handful across the entire country, and many of those are things like returning a recently dead persons mail in ballot that voter ID wouldn't even help with. The fact is that all the evidence says an incredibly small number of people vote who are not legally eligible to do so, and only a small proportion of tho…

It doesn't work if a large portion of the country believes that this issue is causing voter fraud. It doesn't have to be really happening, it just has to be possible and perceived to be happening. We can easily fix that.

No, it doesn’t actually need to be possible for it to be perceived as happening when you have an organized campaign dedicated to convince people it’s happening.

Re: Brennan Center for Justice Report: The Campaign to Undermine the Next Election

#95

Post by neaden »

jimbo808 wrote: post #69
neaden wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But it works fine. There have been extensive efforts to find people voting illegally and it turns up a small handful across the entire country, and many of those are things like returning a recently dead persons mail in ballot that voter ID wouldn't even help with. The fact is that all the evidence says an incredibly small number of people vote who are not legally eligible to do so, and only a small proportion of tho…

It doesn't work if a large portion of the country believes that this issue is causing voter fraud. It doesn't have to be really happening, it just has to be possible and perceived to be happening. We can easily fix that.

That doesn't make any sense to me. If a lot of people believe a lie you don't start acting like the lie is true, you teach them the truth. If one of my neighbors becomes worried tigers are going to attack and eat him I'm not going to help him build a giant tiger proof fence around his house.

Re: Brennan Center for Justice Report: The Campaign to Undermine the Next Election

#97

Post by celeritascelery »

hypeatei wrote: post #93
celeritascelery wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s great that those organizations say it’s uncommon. But this shouldn’t even be an issue. It doesn’t take many votes to tip a close election. Requiring ID like every other country is the common sense thing to do. And it helps build confidence in the election process without the need for organizations to try and demonstrate that the election was legitimate after the fact.

Common sense isn't saying "oh there's no ID required at the polls? Illegals must be tipping elections", it's recognizing that there are armies of people auditing these elections each cycle. Irregularities are caught and people challenge results in court all the time. In practice, if you tried to commit voter fraud, I think you'd find it very hard to accomplish (especially if you're trying to change the outcome) Even…

If ID is required, then your whole “Illegals must be tipping elections" argument just goes away. People keep making this debate in the US of “we need ID to prevent election fraud” vs “we can’t have ID required because ID can be hard to obtain”. It’s just silly. If you take a step back and make it easier to get an ID than the whole things resolves itself. The pro-ID people are happy Because only registered voters can vote and the non-ID people are happy because voting is accessible. The real question is, why are they not doing that? Every other country can do it, why not the US? Why do we have to be stuck in this silly debate forever?

And I don’t believe the whole “the mean republicans won’t let us!” narrative. Democrats controlled the executive branch 12 of the last 16 years and control half the states. If they care about voters rights, why haven’t we tried to fix this?

Re: Brennan Center for Justice Report: The Campaign to Undermine the Next Election

#98

Post by samdoesnothing »

hypeatei wrote: post #90
samdoesnothing wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

You mean the dilemma provided in your comment? > democrats don't want voter ID so more non-citizens can vote democrat If that was true, why would they allow themselves to lose another election?

[flagged]

Re: Brennan Center for Justice Report: The Campaign to Undermine the Next Election

#99

Post by atmavatar »

radixdiaboli wrote: post #87
assword wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh man the birth certificate thing is ridiculous. I had to get a new Id from scratch recently and it was the most painful process The state I was born in decided to outsource the handling of birth certificates to some shit tier consulting firm. In order to get my birth certificate shipped to me, I would have to wait over six months simply to process my request (ostensibly due to Covid, but this was 2023). It would ha…

Just to corroborate, I ordered my birth certificate from NY this year and there's an 8 month turn around time. And no Covid shutdowns, last I checked.

Not just a slow turn-around time, but as I recall, it also cost me $90 to get my copy. That's not much for most of us, but to someone living paycheck to paycheck, it may be insurmountable or nearly so.

Re: Brennan Center for Justice Report: The Campaign to Undermine the Next Election

#100

Post by samdoesnothing »

triceratops wrote: post #78
samdoesnothing wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't trust any "study" on this topic because of how highly politicised it is. Is there anything stopping a person from going to a polling station, writing a fake name, and walking out with zero risk? No? Then you must assume there is some amount of fraud.

Where are the arrests and charges? If it's that bad we should see some people in jail by now.

[flagged]
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