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US reportedly forcing TSMC to buy 49% stake in Intel to secure tariff relief

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Re: US reportedly forcing TSMC to buy 49% stake in Intel to secure tariff relief

#91

Post by notahacker »

nemomarx wrote: post #5
FirmwareBurner wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see how it can't work at least short term, when the US is by a long margin the world leading military and economic power. Why else has the US been overspending on military for decades and planting military bases and nuclear submarines all over the world, to become the world hegemony, if not to bully everyone in doing its bidding when push comes to shove? I'm not defending the actions of the US, I'm just askin…

China seems to be working on catching up, and if you remove all of your soft power maybe they look more attractive?

Absolutely. Everything the OP mentions as a reason to continue trading with the US is also a reason for Europe to trade more with China. Historically the argument for not doing that is "look at their very different values and how they bully and threaten their neighbours, and remember that if you do business there their government will happily crush you with its arbitrary power as soon as you step out of line and even at the import/export any trade deals they do make will be them openly trying to screw you" The US isn't exactly in a strong position to continue making those arguments about why the world's other superpower is different with a straight face.

The US doesn't need to be cut out of world trade altogether (it won't be obviously) to lose a lot at the margin, with the chief beneficiaries ironically being the country the current US administration most hate...

Re: US reportedly forcing TSMC to buy 49% stake in Intel to secure tariff relief

#92

Post by davidw »

saalweachter wrote: post #66
duxup wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

... is that not a thing that already happens?

Mostly not, because they are all 100% on board. They have shown cabinet meetings where they all take turns effusively praising him in the most sickeningly sycophantic way, though.

Re: US reportedly forcing TSMC to buy 49% stake in Intel to secure tariff relief

#93

Post by leptons »

xyst wrote: post #39

If US steps in to buy a troubled asset such as Intel after failing to convince TSMC to buy, this country is cooked. Did we learn _nothing_ from the 2008 subprime mortgage crisis? Let them fail.

>Did we learn _nothing_ from the 2008 subprime mortgage crisis? Let them fail.

2025 says "hold my beer"

Re: US reportedly forcing TSMC to buy 49% stake in Intel to secure tariff relief

#94

Post by adgjlsfhk1 »

dismalaf wrote: post #85
Fade_Dance wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Intel is not profitable. They have negative eps and negative free cash flow. The cash flows from existing products can't be considered in isolation. If their R+D and Capex investments stopped, the sum total of the existing+legacy cash flows wouldn't nearly cover Intel's substantial liabilities. They also have 50 billion dollars in debt, and their cash flow situation has gotten so desperate that slices of future fab r…

> Intel is not profitable. Did I say they were? Google gross versus net margin. > If their R+D and Capex investments stopped, the sum total of the existing+legacy cash flows wouldn't nearly cover Intel's substantial liabilities. You sure? https://www.intc.com/financial-info/balance-sheet Current assets are $43 billion. Total assets are $192 billion. $30 billion yearly in gross profit. Debt is only $50 billion. They s…

It's actually better than that. TSMC wouldn't help intel with their 14a node. They would kill it, fire all of Intel's foundry R&D, and just build TSMCs 14a node.

Re: US reportedly forcing TSMC to buy 49% stake in Intel to secure tariff relief

#95

Post by llm_nerd »

howmayiannoyyou wrote: post #56

[flagged]

> if you're an American think carefully about whom you want defining the economic & strategic reality your children will inherit.

This is such an astonishing statement. US tech and industry have been enormous, outrageously successful at bringing wealth to the US. They have been welcomed with open arms worldwide, and have funnelled trillions into the US coffers. While Intel become a company of middle managers and suits, companies like TSMC filled the void and allowed Apple and nvidia, Qualcomm and Broadcom to become goliaths. Boo hoo.

For someone to do this crybaby routine about how maligned it is...good god. The total and complete lack of self-awarenesss is extraordinary.

The US has a monumental amount to fall, and idiotic, Stalinist actions like this are precisely how it can be rapidly sped up.

> The USA competes against countries and companies that are state owned and/or state infiltrated

Not only do US intelligence do economic espionage on behalf of US companies, the US government's enormous debt spend is a collosal socialist regime for US corporations. The US military has a $1T budget largely to dump into US firms (see the laughable recent billion dollars handed over to AI companies, though it's just a tiny sliver of the spend).

Regardless, it's pretty astonishing seeing the same people who forever called everything socialist/communist suddenly the biggest advocates of a Stalinist/Maoist Trump and his central planned economy. Utterly bizarre. Almost like all of their words were just partisan rhetoric of zero substance or value.

Re: US reportedly forcing TSMC to buy 49% stake in Intel to secure tariff relief

#96

Post by dclowd9901 »

xyst wrote: post #39

If US steps in to buy a troubled asset such as Intel after failing to convince TSMC to buy, this country is cooked. Did we learn _nothing_ from the 2008 subprime mortgage crisis? Let them fail.

Didn't we _not_ let industries fail during that time? How about the Big 3 bailouts and the emergency infusions for banks? And these actions decidedly helped save our economy.

Whether it's good from a moral perspective or a long term perspective I guess is another matter, but I suspect if the government hadn't stepped in, we'd still be in the throes of the subprime crash even today. This is speaking as someone who is deeply anti-corporate.

Re: US reportedly forcing TSMC to buy 49% stake in Intel to secure tariff relief

#97

Post by xnx »

davidw wrote: post #74
coreyh14444 wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Just last week, the director of the Bureau of Labor Statistics was fired because the jobs numbers didn't look good and that upset the person in charge.

I've heard this described as the coach firing the scoreboard after they lost the game.

Re: US reportedly forcing TSMC to buy 49% stake in Intel to secure tariff relief

#98

Post by WorldPeas »

duxup wrote: post #52
xyst wrote: post #39

If US steps in to buy a troubled asset such as Intel after failing to convince TSMC to buy, this country is cooked. Did we learn _nothing_ from the 2008 subprime mortgage crisis? Let them fail.

I think 2008 showed ... how it works. The unfortunate part is that the GOP has now repealed whatever protections were put in place on banks after that.

when I read "how it works" I assume you mean that it was a success? bailing out GM in the way they did pushed their novel vehicle platform technologies to fall to the wayside and for them to refocus on combustion. New brands were on the horizon, there was a hope for a new modern vehicular order but the midrange of the market was squatted by GM's insufficient vehicles. I don't think 2008's bailout worked, at all.

Re: US reportedly forcing TSMC to buy 49% stake in Intel to secure tariff relief

#99

Post by wmf »

xyst wrote: post #39

If US steps in to buy a troubled asset such as Intel after failing to convince TSMC to buy, this country is cooked. Did we learn _nothing_ from the 2008 subprime mortgage crisis? Let them fail.

This is akin to letting all US banks fail and then saying we'll just use foreign banks for everything. Intel is a strategic company for the US.

Re: US reportedly forcing TSMC to buy 49% stake in Intel to secure tariff relief

#100

Post by neves »

ben_w wrote: post #22
FirmwareBurner wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see how it can't work at least short term, when the US is by a long margin the world leading military and economic power. Why else has the US been overspending on military for decades and planting military bases and nuclear submarines all over the world, to become the world hegemony, if not to bully everyone in doing its bidding when push comes to shove? I'm not defending the actions of the US, I'm just askin…

The US margin on economic power isn't all that great, by GDP/PPP it's a long way behind China. Though from the POV of economic coercion, the question is probably more like "what's the USA's import/export market like relative to all my markets including domestic?", which is going to vary wildly by industry. > Ally with China, Iran and Russia to fight the US? Replace Iran with the EU, and yes, some or all of them. > EU…

US is a lot richer than China. GDP/PPP does not count the number of citizens.
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