Mastercard deflects blame for NSFW games being taken down • Hacker News Board

Re: Mastercard deflects blame for NSFW games being taken down

#91

Post by Shank » Mon, Aug 04, 2025, 11:47 AM UTC

petcat wrote: post #69

kmfrk wrote: post #17

Full title that doesn't fit in the HN headline: "Mastercard deflects blame for NSFW games being taken down, but Valve says payment processors 'specifically cited' a Mastercard rule about damaging the brand" (For the people who don't click the link to read the article.)

There are definitely a lot of links in this chain. Maybe leafo can chime-in and say exactly what happened with Itch.io. But I suspect that someone downstream of Visa/Mastercard anticipated that the payment card companies would not permit the transactions and relayed that back up to the merchants, and they shut it off preemptively. But it's hard to say. Mastercard is now saying that they never said or did anything. So…

> But I suspect that someone downstream of Visa/Mastercard anticipated that the payment card companies would not permit the transactions and relayed that back up to the merchants, and they shut it off preemptively.

It sure is tragic that benevolent and majestic Mastercard is having their name thrown into the mud over this. Coincidentally, it sure is convenient that they have a number of middleman scapegoats who can take the blame on their behalf.

Re: Mastercard deflects blame for NSFW games being taken down

#92

Post by p_ing » Mon, Aug 04, 2025, 11:47 AM UTC

delta_p_delta_x wrote: post #73

p_ing wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no meaningful attention, here. Until it is on the US Gov't radar, this 'attention' is just a collection of upset redditors furiously posting forum messages which will fissile out in a few months, at most. Besides, it's not like you can boycott Mastercard or VISA.

> it's not like you can boycott Mastercard or VISA In many countries, if you pay locally, you absolutely can. China's UnionPay, India's UPI, PayNow in Singapore, PromptPay in Thailand, PayPal, Cash App, and more.

That's great to hear, but this is a US-centric complaint discussing US-centric companies.

Re: Mastercard deflects blame for NSFW games being taken down

#93

Post by reginald78 » Mon, Aug 04, 2025, 11:47 AM UTC

rs186 wrote: post #64

Dumb question: what if Steam only takes cash or crypto payment for these games, and leave them on the market? Cash is loaded from debit card and can be used for buying any games, while crypto apparently always works for everything. Would they still be on the hook?

IIRC the rule Mastercard cited was so vague that trying to workaround it almost seemed potentially pointless. It was basically a blanket "we think it makes MasterCard look bad so we end our relationship". Anyway, debit cards are still Visa/mastercard so using them as cash has the same problem. I was thinking they could just use Steam gift cards but since those are often themselves purchased in stores or with credit cards it seems to just push the problem a little further away.

I believe Steam did support bitcoin at one point but decided to end usage over because the price fluctuations made it to unpredictable on their end. Maybe the landscape has changed though.

Re: Mastercard deflects blame for NSFW games being taken down

#94

Post by Jensson » Mon, Aug 04, 2025, 11:48 AM UTC

scotty79 wrote: post #57

mschild wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Adoption. You'd have to onboard hundreds/thousands of banks and terminal providers so they accept/give out your card. I excpect the underlying technical stuff isn't that hard compared to getting people and companies to actually use it.

Aren't cards last century technology? I'm paying with my phone anyways. Seller can use phone as well. Why does it need to involve incumbent banks and terminal providers at all? If Valve started something like that the banks would bang on its door relentlessly just to not be left out of the loop. Gaming is the business bigger than movies, music and books combined and Valve is Google of games.

> Gaming is the business bigger than movies, music and books combined and Valve is Google of games.

Valve is not Google of games, the app stores Google and Apple has dwarfs steam sales and the individual game consoles are similar size as the steam store.

> I'm paying with my phone anyways

Right, since the phone ecosystem is large enough to be its own payment processor, unlike steam.

Re: Mastercard deflects blame for NSFW games being taken down

#95

Post by ascagnel_ » Mon, Aug 04, 2025, 11:48 AM UTC

rs186 wrote: post #64

Dumb question: what if Steam only takes cash or crypto payment for these games, and leave them on the market? Cash is loaded from debit card and can be used for buying any games, while crypto apparently always works for everything. Would they still be on the hook?

Debit cards still go through MasterCard and/or Visa. They could take crypto, but crypto is far too volatile for the types of transactions Valve wants to be handling.

Re: Mastercard deflects blame for NSFW games being taken down

#96

Post by roblabla » Mon, Aug 04, 2025, 11:48 AM UTC

CoastalCoder wrote: post #82

p_ing wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First Amendment applies to the _government_, not private entities.

I think the larger point here is that the government is suppressing protected speech by using private sector actors as intermediaries.

Is there proof the government actually uses this apparatus?

I don't think there's any government involvement necessary here - Mastercard has some censorship apparatus (which they claim to be necessary for their brand's reputation), and they used it (apparently through pressure from an Australian group) towards video games.

This is really bad but I don't think it makes sense to believe a government was ever involved here. Of course, there should be laws put in place to regulate mastercard into a common infrastructure. They should not be able to deny processing a legal payment because of nebulous "brand reputation" reason.

Re: Mastercard deflects blame for NSFW games being taken down

#97

Post by raincole » Mon, Aug 04, 2025, 11:48 AM UTC

p_ing wrote: post #58

cedws wrote: post #50

I'm glad the Mastercard-Visa duopoly is finally getting some attention, these companies shouldn't be allowed to exercise the financial control they do. Payment infrastructure is not a free market - you can't just choose to pay via some other processor if they turn you down, they ARE the processors. Therefore, they should be under intense scrutiny when they refuse.

There's no meaningful attention, here. Until it is on the US Gov't radar, this 'attention' is just a collection of upset redditors furiously posting forum messages which will fissile out in a few months, at most. Besides, it's not like you can boycott Mastercard or VISA.

> Besides, it's not like you can boycott Mastercard or VISA

Most countries have some kinds of domestic transaction systems, or at least a more local credit card brand. They're also usually instant. It's more or less an US-only situation that people use Visa/Mastercard even for intranational stuff.

Re: Mastercard deflects blame for NSFW games being taken down

#98

Post by krainboltgreene » Mon, Aug 04, 2025, 11:48 AM UTC

rs186 wrote: post #64

Dumb question: what if Steam only takes cash or crypto payment for these games, and leave them on the market? Cash is loaded from debit card and can be used for buying any games, while crypto apparently always works for everything. Would they still be on the hook?

Yes, but also the crypto option has been tried and absolutely doesn’t work.

Re: Mastercard deflects blame for NSFW games being taken down

#99

Post by gus_massa » Mon, Aug 04, 2025, 11:48 AM UTC

p_ing wrote: post #58

cedws wrote: post #50

I'm glad the Mastercard-Visa duopoly is finally getting some attention, these companies shouldn't be allowed to exercise the financial control they do. Payment infrastructure is not a free market - you can't just choose to pay via some other processor if they turn you down, they ARE the processors. Therefore, they should be under intense scrutiny when they refuse.

There's no meaningful attention, here. Until it is on the US Gov't radar, this 'attention' is just a collection of upset redditors furiously posting forum messages which will fissile out in a few months, at most. Besides, it's not like you can boycott Mastercard or VISA.

You can switch to Amex, but here in Argentina like half of the postnets don't recognize it.

Also there are a few QR networks, some made by the banks like "Modo" and other no-a-bank ones like "MercadoPago" and a few minor ones. Even the guy/gal that sells hot bread on the street accept most of them.

Re: Mastercard deflects blame for NSFW games being taken down

#100

Post by littlecranky67 » Mon, Aug 04, 2025, 11:48 AM UTC

koonsolo wrote: post #12

If only we had some kind of decentralized internet money system.

And this is not the first time this happens. The exact same thing happened to PornHub - their premium subscription model got cancelled due to Visa/MC not liking some "questionable" content. Even though PH purged 60% of its content (basically every video uploaded from an unverified account), they are to this day still not accepting CC - probably as they are still banned. Instead they accept Crypto and SEPA payments in the EU.

This makes a strong case for Bitcoin - no matter if you consider it a ponzi scheme, or the BTC price to be overinflated, you will not be able to deny it is truly censorship free.