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Microsoft bans LibreOffice developer's account without warning, rejects appeal

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Re: Microsoft bans LibreOffice developer's account without warning, rejects appeal

#91
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Several instances. https://www.reddit.com/r/iOSProgramming/comments/1h48tkz/app... https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38394364 https://medium.com/@thedarkhacker94/apple-has-terminated-my-...

All of these are Apple just terminated developer account (and at least two of them probably don't tell the full story) But this guy was completely blocked. It's VERY different when you lose access to everything and can't even contact support > Microsoft has banned LibreOffice developer, Mike Kaganski, from using its services

I know that Google has done this, but I am not sure if Apple has ever gone this far.

I acknowledge that the cases are different.

Re: Microsoft bans LibreOffice developer's account without warning, rejects appeal

#92

1) I doubt this is Microsoft conspiring against a LibreOffice dev. It's not impossible, but it seems way more likely that it's just an automated process that is misfiring. 2) I cannot prove that this (opaque) process has been retrofitted to use LLM's in its decision making, but I would not be the slightest bit surprised. Neural networks are, intrinsically, even more opaque than the processes they replace. 3) Using Bi…

Given Microsoft's previous behaviour towards competitors and open source software, it seems almost certain to me that Microsoft is doing this deliberately. They've got decades of bad faith behaviour at this point, so why give them the benefit of the doubt?

Because, this is the default operating for all big corporations at this point. Ban people based on some random automated factor. And then have no customer support channel to contact.

I just fall on general malice here too instead of specific malice.

Re: Microsoft bans LibreOffice developer's account without warning, rejects appeal

#94
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Appeals are not safety nets for false positives. Making online support require a login is extremely common. However there are other methods of communication to get support. Support not calling you back is not a story. Come on now. Having a bad support experience is not being "beaten down". Talk about hyperbolic. If this is a systemic issue, that could be a story. But why isn't my grandmother's bad experience at Costc…

Did your grandmother or friend get their issues resolved? If yes, not a story. If no, then potentially a story if they make enough noise. But sure, you go right ahead and just roll over and take shitty service and then go ahead and add a tip too while you at it. The rest of will continue to make noise and call a spade a spade. Some of us might even tell them emperor he has no clothes on

[flagged]

Re: Microsoft bans LibreOffice developer's account without warning, rejects appeal

#96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The key insight is that mitigating risk isn’t a free action. No business has the bandwidth to avoid even most of the risks they could in principle avoid; you allocate some effort towards the ones that make sense to mitigate, and hope the others don’t come to pass.

But relying on other people's kingdom isn't free either, that comes with a cost. The fallacy I hear often is that because something like AWS is sooo much more expensive than co-location or VPS, that it must be easier. Yeah, it can be... sometimes. It almost never is. You trade off the complexity for new complexity. You replace your sysadmins with Dev Ops. It's not like it just magically gets better. It's the same way…

> But relying on other people's kingdom isn't free either

I know it sounds trite, but looking at what I'm responding to, it is not possible to not rely on others for anything but the most basic things where input(s), tool(s), action(s), and output(s) don't require anyone else. You need infrastructure, services, tools, materials provided by others for almost everything.

We are a highly networked species, and building a business is finding a spot in that network. You are always highly connected. Therefore I find that "kingdom" metaphor does not fit how our lives work. It's a network, not kingdoms, not even the richest country could afford to cut the connections.

Services like those from the big companies at least have the advantage that the companies cannot make them too bad, because that would backfire. Copying what most do is pretty safe compared to doing your own thing.

That's also because you want to concentrate on your core business idea. Sure, if you spend some effort doing your basic infrastructure different from others you may save a little, but overall for many companies it will be much better to copy what most others in your space do, so that you have the same basis, and not risk being different in an area that is far from your core competence.

For many areas in business you just hope for the best. You hope(d) Russia-Ukraine would not escalate, or later that it ends quickly. You hope that the latest US tariffs won't be too bad. The world is full of surprises, at least for businesses big company account access or cloud issues does not seem to be a big one, in comparison. I'm not saying this as a headline reader, but as someone dealing with a sanctioned country and other politics-related issues that have been impacting us for a while, despite doing business very far from anything critical (lifestyle consumer products).

We, for example, use one big company to host our DNS (due to history, they also used to host our emails when we began), but we have Microsoft host files (OneDrive) and Email (Office 365) for our entire business domain. I would like to not have to rely on US companies, nor more than ever (we are German), but that stuff just works. And not just as individual pieces, but also together. For example, when I open an Excel file stored in a shared OneDrive folder, and a colleague does the same, we get automatic shared editing and see each other's cursor position. Many small conveniences like that. AND, very important, emails just work - with rarely ever any issues because of rejected emails.

Whenever I see a discussion on reddit or here "why Microsoft (Office)", soooo many people only know the most superficial of arguments. They talk about "but LibreOffice", "but [insert other mail- or cloud file- service), but the apps are not even all that important. It is everything, the huge amount of infrastructure and methods they provide, automatically or manually usable, that ties everything together. The "glue" vastly outshines just Excel or just Word itself, either one of which could indeed be replaced.

When you do more than just simple email, when you have to administer a few dozen employees and their devices, you will find that the big US companies are very hard to beat.

What would be the alternative anyway? Having your own server is a nightmare in comparison! Even just making sure my emails won't be spam-rejected by at least some providers (where my customers and business partners sit) is too much. Making sure the dedicated server is always up to date with patches - that's a lot of work that I'd rather not do. In any case I still have to rely on the hosting provider, who may cut off my wonderful 100% self-owned and administered server at any time because I ended up on some anti-spam list because I did not react to some new threat that I did not even know about in time.

Overall, relying on the big mainstream providers is a prudent choice. You can't avoid trouble, and ceteris paribus choosing them IMHO makes sense.

> You can absolutely build your application without relying on other companies too much.

Obviously, since they do it! I could also bake my own bread. The point is I prefer to specialize and deal with things that don't differentiate me from others in my line of business as little as possible.

I started with computers at a time of 8 bit CPUs, when I knew every relevant memory address by heart. The many many layers these days are not something I enjoy, but I will still use the mainstream stuff nevertheless! Because I am not in the business of basic infrastructure IT and every minute I spend on it is a minute not spent where it actually matters in my business. Everybody, the few dozen employees, the partners, the customers(resellers, they all know the big companies and their products. The only thing we do ourselves is EDI messages on top - on cloud servers. But we sure don't want to come up with OneDrive and Ms Office alternatives, even if politically I'd like that.

Re: Microsoft bans LibreOffice developer's account without warning, rejects appeal

#97
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given Microsoft's previous behaviour towards competitors and open source software, it seems almost certain to me that Microsoft is doing this deliberately. They've got decades of bad faith behaviour at this point, so why give them the benefit of the doubt?

Because, this is the default operating for all big corporations at this point. Ban people based on some random automated factor. And then have no customer support channel to contact. I just fall on general malice here too instead of specific malice.

Sufficiently advanced incompetence is indistinguishable from malice.

Re: Microsoft bans LibreOffice developer's account without warning, rejects appeal

#98
I had this exact same thing happen to me a while back. Luckily the account was one I had created just for this one user group who required I become part of their AD domain to access MS Teams. I tried getting back into the account and hit the same roadblock this guy did. I didn't care that much and just abandoned the account.

I figured it was something that Microsoft would soon fix, as it was such an obvious cluster; I'm surprised the issue still exists.

Re: Microsoft bans LibreOffice developer's account without warning, rejects appeal

#99

1) I doubt this is Microsoft conspiring against a LibreOffice dev. It's not impossible, but it seems way more likely that it's just an automated process that is misfiring. 2) I cannot prove that this (opaque) process has been retrofitted to use LLM's in its decision making, but I would not be the slightest bit surprised. Neural networks are, intrinsically, even more opaque than the processes they replace. 3) Using Bi…

> I doubt this is Microsoft conspiring against a LibreOffice dev. It's not impossible, but it seems way more likely that it's just an automated process that is misfiring. I could agree with the beginning of that but not the classification of a misfire. A misfire implies a brief, exceptional occurrence and neither of those adjectives seem likely here. That's based on a few years spent in Microsoft's forever-shuffling…

I agree, I should have said more like "error" or "mistake" or "incompetence", rather than "misfire".

Re: Microsoft bans LibreOffice developer's account without warning, rejects appeal

#100
post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All of these are Apple just terminated developer account (and at least two of them probably don't tell the full story) But this guy was completely blocked. It's VERY different when you lose access to everything and can't even contact support > Microsoft has banned LibreOffice developer, Mike Kaganski, from using its services

I know that Google has done this, but I am not sure if Apple has ever gone this far. I acknowledge that the cases are different.

Yeah. I would still recommend that people create separate account for dev purposes just in case. But still I have not heard of Apple locking people out like Microsoft or others do
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