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The bewildering phenomenon of declining quality

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Re: The bewildering phenomenon of declining quality

#91

Post by drdec »

sgt101 wrote: post #52
esperent wrote: post #4

> clothes are unrecognizable after the second wash What clothes are these? I don't buy any kind of expensive brands. I don't take any care when washing. I don't own a lot of clothes so I wear each item weekly. And my clothes last me for several years at least. The dyes have gotten noticeably better than when I was a child - when was the last time you had colors run in the wash?

I bought some wrangler jeans, because I remembered that I had a pair years ago that fit me better than levis, the levis were quite expensive and the wranglers cheap. They were ok for the first wear - but not great to be honest. Then I washed them and they were unwearable. Didn't do anything fancy, just a cool wash, dried them on the line. They turned to cardboard.

That's kind of what happens to denim when you air dry it. They are fine. Wear them a bit and you won't notice. If it bothers you next time tumble dry them on low.

Re: The bewildering phenomenon of declining quality

#92

Post by blfr »

XorNot wrote: post #79
blfr wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, you prioritized price and availability over sheer product quality. Millions upon millions of people made the same choice.

I mean I bought an Ikea desk like, 15 years ago and have moved it through multiple home offices in that time and it's holding up fine. I also bought it because it was cheap enough I wouldn't worry about taking a jigsaw to it to get it customized just right for me (which was mostly cutting a hole for my tower computer case to sit just right in). The problem with "you want real quality " people is they mostly seem to a…

That's true: millions of people bought a desk right for their needs but we are comparing it to some super expensive (in real terms) item from 80 years ago.

Re: The bewildering phenomenon of declining quality

#94

Post by jmrm »

jstummbillig wrote: post #39

Quality has improved across many dimensions in nearly every domain I’m familiar with. In fact, I’d argue there are very few products or services that couldn’t be made today to a higher standard than at any point in the past, if we chose to prioritize that. But what’s often mistaken for a decline in quality is really a shift in priorities: toward affordability, efficiency, and accessibility. And that’s fantastic. Prod…

I would add that sometimes when people usually say that rancid phrase of "they don't make it as they used to", they are comparing expensive products in the past with cheap ones in the present.

Most of those "good 'ol" goods exist, but probably are pretty/too expensive for what we are used to pay.

Re: The bewildering phenomenon of declining quality

#95

Post by jmrm »

esperent wrote: post #4

> clothes are unrecognizable after the second wash What clothes are these? I don't buy any kind of expensive brands. I don't take any care when washing. I don't own a lot of clothes so I wear each item weekly. And my clothes last me for several years at least. The dyes have gotten noticeably better than when I was a child - when was the last time you had colors run in the wash?

It happens the same to me. Probably we don't experience that because we don't either buy any cheap garments from Shein or similar Chinese stores.

Re: The bewildering phenomenon of declining quality

#96

Post by mayas_ »

jstummbillig wrote: post #39

Quality has improved across many dimensions in nearly every domain I’m familiar with. In fact, I’d argue there are very few products or services that couldn’t be made today to a higher standard than at any point in the past, if we chose to prioritize that. But what’s often mistaken for a decline in quality is really a shift in priorities: toward affordability, efficiency, and accessibility. And that’s fantastic. Prod…

Not quite sure about the affordability part.

Cars are becoming prohibitively expensive. Housing is becoming a luxury.

Even consumer products are becoming increasingly expensive.

Safety largely improved but not craftsmanship.

Re: The bewildering phenomenon of declining quality

#97

Post by blub »

raspasov wrote: post #43

"Following his reasoning, it cannot be stated in absolute terms that an iPhone 15 is of “better quality” than a 2003 Nokia." This statement suffers from either viewing the past through rose-tinted glasses or from total cultural relativism in the most pejorative sense. I'm not sure about 2003, but around 2009, I owned a Nokia N900, which was arguably the flagship Nokia phone at the time. I can confidently state that c…

2003 was Symbian time. The OS was built around cell network reliability and low power. The N900 was the promising side-show getting few resources and attention.

Compared to the iPhone or any modern phone, it did a lot more with a lot less battery. The networking on my iPhones is not great, but it’s hard to compare.

In the end modern smartphones couldn’t win at that game, but the game has changed. Lately, through addiction and almost omnipresent surveillance for the worst.

In that sense, the smartphones of old with some multimedia and internet would be a welcome change.

Re: The bewildering phenomenon of declining quality

#98

Post by drdec »

Most of the people on this board are upper middle to lower upper class (thinking American, apologies to my non US friends). Such people can afford products outside the grasp of most Americans.

What naturally happens to such products is that the manufacturers find a way to broaden their customer base. They find ways to bring the price point down so they can sell more.

For most people this is a boon. They can afford a luxury or convenience they otherwise wouldn't be able to. Overall most people are better off when this happens.

For the first group of people however, they are worse off. They cannot get the same product as before. Such is life.

Re: The bewildering phenomenon of declining quality

#99

Post by ZiiS »

raspasov wrote: post #69
blueflow wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm surprised. What is the objective aspect of quality? Can you have quality without a human-intended purpose?

How about empirical instead of objective? I think objective vs subjective can be a false dichotomy in terms of quality. For example, when my phone connects to WiFi as soon as I get home every time, correctly, for the last many years, that's very strong empirical evidence of quality.

'Correctly' being dropping IP bound VPNs so they can be reestabilished on the cheaper network, or transfring with no distruption even if it incurres cost?

Re: The bewildering phenomenon of declining quality

#100

Post by weinzierl »

AndyMcConachie wrote: post #49
raspasov wrote: post #43

"Following his reasoning, it cannot be stated in absolute terms that an iPhone 15 is of “better quality” than a 2003 Nokia." This statement suffers from either viewing the past through rose-tinted glasses or from total cultural relativism in the most pejorative sense. I'm not sure about 2003, but around 2009, I owned a Nokia N900, which was arguably the flagship Nokia phone at the time. I can confidently state that c…

This author doesn't really understand quality and starts out by defining it purelt in subjective terms. Then makes the mistake in the rest of the article by following this subjective reasoning by talking about perceptions of quality as a stand in for actual quality. Go read Zen anf the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance for a decent, if not weird, introduction to thinking about quality. Quality is both subjective and obje…

I read the “Art of Motorcycle Maintenance” many years ago. What I remember and took away from it is a lot about mental health and about being different and trying or not trying to fit in.

The quality idea in the book sadly never clicked. To my defense I have to say I was young and had no philosophical background whatsoever, but maybe I am ready now.

I should really re-read the book but maybe you could summarize your take away about quality from the book.

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