Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

FDA Authorizes Juul E-Cigarettes

wsj.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

91–100 of 100 posts

Re: FDA Authorizes Juul E-Cigarettes

#91

Post by arrosenberg »

jajuuka wrote: post #86
arrosenberg wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I think most alcohol advertising is aimed at trying to addict people as young as possible. You are the one who proposed that this product is to be used as a medical device, so why wouldn't we treat it like one?

Saying it can help people get off cigarettes doesn't mean it should be a medical device and require a prescription. Not to mention nicotine lozenges and patches are over the counter.

Fine, make them OTC. If the only reason we are allowing this is to help people quit cigarettes, then there should be a bit of friction so they aren't being used to addict teenagers.

Re: FDA Authorizes Juul E-Cigarettes

#93

Post by const_cast »

nashashmi wrote: post #81
malfist wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Murder has a victim. Abortion does not.

The unborn baby can be considered a life. That is the victim. You and I may not agree, but that is politics

It can be considered a life, maybe in some hypothetical argument, but nobody actually can make that argument.

Because it's hard. There's implications of autonomy here. If an unborn baby is a life and has rights, which rights does it have? Is it an American Citizen? It must, at least, have personhood - what are the guardrails around that? Can I, for example, say that the unborn fetus is a person and is inside me, and is therefore bound by "stand your ground" laws, meaning I am free to kill it for self-defense, much like I would a grown person?

See, the Supreme Court never actually asked that question. As it stands, unborn babies are not people, they are not citizens. We, instead, said "fuck it this is hard to argue" and made exactly 1 exception for unborn fetuses - abortion.

If you want to argue an unborn fetus is alive, there are implications and consequences of that. Evidently, conservatives are too cowardly to address any of them. Ever. So, here we are, with our broken laws that make no sense.

Re: FDA Authorizes Juul E-Cigarettes

#95

Post by stronglikedan »

Freak_NL wrote: post #7
whycome wrote: post #3

> ~ Original and Menthol I'll never understand why adults partaking in a particular vice can't enjoy different flavours (unless the vice is alcohol).

Do you mean why vapes aren't allowed to be sold in exciting flavours in a lot of countries? Because what happened there was that 'strawberry kiwi', 'banana ice', and 'miami mint', and whatever fruity flavour in a colourful package you can come up with, turned vaping from something adults did to quit smoking tobacco into the biggest hype amongst teenagers since fidget spinners. Only they get addicted to nicotine as a…

nobody switches to proper tobacco, only from it. nice try tho

Re: FDA Authorizes Juul E-Cigarettes

#96

Post by rich_sasha »

jajuuka wrote: post #48
malfist wrote: post #14

I'm sure loosening restrictions is all part of the Make America Healthy Again plan, right?

Considering vaping is an effective means to get people off cigarettes, I would guess so. MAHA is garbage but this is a good change.

Interesting one to watch.

UK is seeing a wave of people who never smoked cigarettes but went straight to vapes. It's less bad for sure but not harmless. IIRC a bump in lung cancer cases in young people was ascribed to this.

Re: FDA Authorizes Juul E-Cigarettes

#97

Post by downrightmike »

gizmov21 wrote: post #85
downrightmike wrote: post #63

Watch the documentary on Netflix, it is wild to see people start with noble intentions and then little by little, money absolutely corrupts everyone at Juul. Sick, sad and they make up so many excuses to try and project that they have some moral character. They aren't really trying to convince us of that, they are trying to convince themselves of it.

I dunno about that. Pretty much everyone from day 1 only cared about making money.

And the get more and more desperate to cover their actions

Re: FDA Authorizes Juul E-Cigarettes

#98

Post by oasisbob »

827a wrote: post #76
oasisbob wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

... except the increasing numbers of young children who ingest them.

Kids also regularly ingest large volumes of flinstone multivitamins and melatonin gummies. Does that change your position on the health and safety of these supplements? Should our nanny-state ban those too? I'll stop you right there, because I know what you're thinking, and nope: Zyn containers already have a child safety lock on them. Its the bane of existence for the adults who buy them, you can ask any of them, bu…

I never advocated for a ban, and frankly don't see the relation between kids vitamins and nicotine ingestions

Regardless of the purported child safety lock on Zyn, child nicotine poisonings are up dramatically according to recent research:

https://www.eurekalert.org/news-releases/1090659

Re: FDA Authorizes Juul E-Cigarettes

#99

Post by evanjrowley »

827a wrote: post #41
evanjrowley wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Various U.S. institutions of authority took the position that flavors were not for adults, but instead, a strategy to attract minors. https://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/e-cigarettes/why-youth-vape.html https://www.fda.gov/tobacco-products/ctp-newsroom/misleading... https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6663555/ https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/news/press-releases/2018/05/... https://www.drugs.com/news/study-finds-powerful…

No, they took the stance that this crusade against good flavors should specifically and only apply to Juul. Maybe deservedly given Juul's behavior in marketing to teenagers. Today, you can go to gas stations in most states and buy Cherry Ice Lemonade Cotton Candy Mr Fog vapes, or Geekbars, or whatever brand shipped straight from China is popular this month. To be honest, even if Juul were allowed to bring Mango back,…

Would this not be due to the unfortunate reality that litigation and enforcement can be carried out against domestic companies more effectively than foreign ones?

Re: FDA Authorizes Juul E-Cigarettes

#100

Post by 827a »

oasisbob wrote: post #98
827a wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kids also regularly ingest large volumes of flinstone multivitamins and melatonin gummies. Does that change your position on the health and safety of these supplements? Should our nanny-state ban those too? I'll stop you right there, because I know what you're thinking, and nope: Zyn containers already have a child safety lock on them. Its the bane of existence for the adults who buy them, you can ask any of them, bu…

I never advocated for a ban, and frankly don't see the relation between kids vitamins and nicotine ingestions Regardless of the purported child safety lock on Zyn, child nicotine poisonings are up dramatically according to recent research: https://www.eurekalert.org/news-releases/1090659

The reality is, anyone who has suggested that a ban on highly-appetizing flavors of nicotine pouches would be an effective deterrent to accidental underage consumption, has very clearly never tasted any of these products.

Many of the candy and fruit-flavored vapes are legitimately delicious tasting, through and through. The same is not as correct for nicotine pouches. These flavors only barely cover up what is best described as a highly-chemical, astringent, punch to the mouth, vomit inducing taste much akin to chlorinated pool water. They are not candy. They don't taste like candy. They are not sold in containers that look like candy.

Why are rates up? Because these products have become significantly more popular! Zyn sales have gone up by bonkers numbers basically every year for the past decade [1]. Any report that suggests accidental consumption is up should be met with a "great job sherlock, really putting that government pork funding to work", because even intentional consumption is up. In fact, statements like the following from your link should raise even further questions about the efficacy of their findings:

> Nicotine pouches were also more likely to be associated with serious medical outcomes or hospital admissions than other nicotine products like gum/lozenges, e-liquids, powder/granules, and tablets/capsules/caplets.

What is "nicotine powder, granules, tablets, capsules, caplets"? That's nothing. There is no such thing as population-level consumption of "nicotine powder". No one buys that. No one uses it. They're clearly just making stuff up to scare people. Even an assertion that medical outcomes from the consumption of nicotine pouches are worse than e.g. lozenges or e-liquids is extremely suspect, from a first principals perspective. Many popular e-liquids, such as Juul, contains as much as 5mg of nicotine per milliliter; and because its a liquid, its extremely bio-available, it gets absorbed through every mucousal membrane that liquid touches, and anyone who has touched vape eliquid can attest that the smell takes days to wash off once it touches your skin.

Bad article, bad research, I don't believe a word it purports to be true.

[1] https://fortune.com/article/philip-morris-economic-volatilit...

Post reply on HN