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Apple's Browser Engine Ban Persists, Even Under the DMA

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Re: Apple's Browser Engine Ban Persists, Even Under the DMA

#91

Post by fabian2k »

sealeck wrote: post #67
fabian2k wrote: post #13

The simple fact that they restrict this to the EU, where they are forced to provide the option, shows that Apple is not serious about this. They're barely fulfilling the letter of the law here. If this would be only about security as Apple claims, there would be no reason to restrict this to the EU and to force Browser vendors to publish other engines as separate apps after they meet the security conditions Apple imp…

> The simple fact that they restrict this to the EU, where they are forced to provide the option, shows that Apple is not serious about this. They're barely fulfilling the letter of the law here. Apple may or (more likely) may not be complying in terms of allowing third party browser engines, but I don't see how you can argue that not implementing this _outside_ the EU fails to comply with EU law (which applies _insi…

I'm not saying this is against the law, but it is clear that Apple only moves exactly as far as the EU forces it to, not a bit more. And within the limits the law allows, they're doing everything they can to make it tedious and difficult to actually get alternative apps stores or browser engines on their OS.

Re: Apple's Browser Engine Ban Persists, Even Under the DMA

#92

Post by systemtest »

RegW wrote: post #68
systemtest wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those popups I get multiple times a day about how this website works better on Chrome , which cover half my screen and which forward me to the App Store, are incredibly misleading. I have misclicked many times and then the App Store opens up. If you go back to the browser and hit the back button, it will again open the App Store. I have to press and hold the back button and skip multiple pages to get back to what I w…

Strange - I don't get this in Firefox. I wonder if its because I'm in the UK or perhaps Privacy Badger is blocking it.

This is with the Safari browser on iOS, using Google websites while not being logged in to Google. No content blockers.

Re: Apple's Browser Engine Ban Persists, Even Under the DMA

#93

Post by pmkary »

I wonder why they should make iOS specific engines. To be honest only two things come to my mind: Shortcuts Integration and WebExtensions. Currently Orion is trying to bring extensions but I think there is a lot to be done for that to be considered operational and if that proves to work, then only remains Shortcuts which only lets you inject JS, or say get the content of a page from a "Safari" web page (while I think every webview is basically a Safari page).

That brings me to this: Chrome extensions are valuable and we know as early as the rumors of Apple being forced to open up, Google started working on iOS port, but really, is there any justification for bringing a browser engine to iOS? I really don't understand how will it be beneficial when the user probably will notice anything.

Also we only have like four players to enter: Google (which will come), Mozilla (broke and miss-managed as hell), GNOME Web (will never come), Ladybug Browser (they are crazy and will definitely come someday, but it takes a long time for them to be an actual player)

So my question is: Will all this effort even fruit?

Re: Apple's Browser Engine Ban Persists, Even Under the DMA

#94

Post by sealeck »

fabian2k wrote: post #91
sealeck wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The simple fact that they restrict this to the EU, where they are forced to provide the option, shows that Apple is not serious about this. They're barely fulfilling the letter of the law here. Apple may or (more likely) may not be complying in terms of allowing third party browser engines, but I don't see how you can argue that not implementing this _outside_ the EU fails to comply with EU law (which applies _insi…

I'm not saying this is against the law, but it is clear that Apple only moves exactly as far as the EU forces it to, not a bit more. And within the limits the law allows, they're doing everything they can to make it tedious and difficult to actually get alternative apps stores or browser engines on their OS.

> it is clear that Apple only moves exactly as far as the EU forces it to

I don't think this is a secret - Apple publicly opposes these kinds of laws.

> And within the limits the law allows, they're doing everything they can to make it tedious and difficult to actually get alternative apps stores or browser engines on their OS.

Sure, it's unclear what the EU can do to oppose this though. If they push too far they risk invoking the wrath of the much more powerful US government.

Re: Apple's Browser Engine Ban Persists, Even Under the DMA

#96

Post by agust »

pmkary wrote: post #93

I wonder why they should make iOS specific engines. To be honest only two things come to my mind: Shortcuts Integration and WebExtensions. Currently Orion is trying to bring extensions but I think there is a lot to be done for that to be considered operational and if that proves to work, then only remains Shortcuts which only lets you inject JS, or say get the content of a page from a "Safari" web page (while I think…

Browser engines define the capabilities of web apps and websites. When they don't support APIs or have bugs, they impact negatively web software.

Apple's WebKit is renowned to be lagging behind, refusing to implement crucial features and being rigged with bugs, hence limiting the capabilities and quality of web apps, and effectively preventing them to compete with native apps.

Getting other browser engines on iOS would be beneficial for developers, businesses and end user by making mobile web apps viable.

Re: Apple's Browser Engine Ban Persists, Even Under the DMA

#97

Post by Fluorescence »

kosinus wrote: post #75
stavros wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, but approximately zero people have ever said "this website doesn't work on Firefox, so I won't use this website". They say "this website doesn't work on Firefox, so I won't use Firefox".

I think that is true when you initially switch and are still comparing browsers, but I certainly no longer check if something broken happens to work in Chrome. Stuff may equally be broken by my adblocker. Too lazy to debug someone else's work.

Too often the only sites I find are broken in Firefox are "necessary" things like financial and medical things. I rarely see any issue with hobby and nonsense sites where "laziness" might be excusable.

It's the perverse incentives where companies with a captive audience that can't easily churn will be the ones that ship broken half-arsed sites and not care.

One phenomena I am seeing more that makes me boil with fury is infinite captchas in Firefox. If Firefox increasingly gets excluded "for security" then...

Re: Apple's Browser Engine Ban Persists, Even Under the DMA

#98

Post by LadyCailin »

the_third_wave wrote: post #78
LadyCailin wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it’s more an anti-EU bias. Capitalists can’t stand consumers having choices.

It is both fruit factory fanboyism as well as anti-EU sentiment and it has nothing to do with 'capitalists' not liking 'consumers' having choices. Without capitalism the problem would not exist, so much is true. It would not exist because there wouldn't be anything to choose from: no browser market, no mobile devices, no choice. This tired anti-capitalism rhetoric needs to be shelved with the other books from the 60'…

It most certainly does. What company (capital) willingly gives consumer the choice to stop paying for their product? The only time that actually happens is when they are forced to, either via competition, or regulation. Any time they can lock consumers in to their solution, they do so.

Re: Apple's Browser Engine Ban Persists, Even Under the DMA

#99

Post by arccy »

idonotknowwhy wrote: post #80
rafaelmn wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google has an incentive to make everything work through the web. Safari has the incentive to gatekeep the app store revenue, which is why PWAs are a joke on iOS. Google also has bad incentives (Android, ads) but Safari is the IE6 of modern web.

Chrome is the IE6 of the modern Web. Devs are building hacky sites that only work in Chrome. It's the browser we're FORCED to have installed for the occasional shitty flight or hotel booking that doesn't work in Firefox.

it's the browser you need when your shitty default browser decided to spend their money elsewhere instead of building a proper browser that can compete against the app store lock in

Re: Apple's Browser Engine Ban Persists, Even Under the DMA

#100

Post by sexy_seedbox »

IshKebab wrote: post #74
pickledoyster wrote: post #55

On top of that, iOS continues to push Safari on users by disregarding their default browser settings. Steps to reproduce: 0. Select a different default browser, delete the Safari app (just for good measure, even though it's not really possible just like deleting IE in older Win versions) 1. Open the Books app 2. Select text 3. Select Search 4. Press Search the Web 5. Safari search results open as you stare in disbeli…

Google does this too on Android in a few places. Stuff still opens in Chrome even if Firefox is the default.

Install "Choose Browser": https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=de.ub0r.androi...

I have this installed and all links I can choose between Kiwi Browser or Firefox.

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