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Thunderbird: Fluent Windows 11 Design

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Re: Thunderbird: Fluent Windows 11 Design

#91

Post by JohnFen »

pbmonster wrote: post #9
criley2 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having a widescreen monitor is irrelevant to me unless I fullscreen my browser (which I don't and I assume most don't). My (multiple) browser windows on my very big wide screen are all roughly in 4:3 ~square shape and top tabs make a lot more sense. And unless you have a browser full of tabs, vertical tab lists usually have massive amounts of purely wasted white space and are generally much less space efficient overa…

> Having a widescreen monitor is irrelevant to me unless I fullscreen my browser (which I don't and I assume most don't). Are you kidding? I'm willing to bet 99% of users run their browsers fullscreen. Using the drag-and-drop feature that splits the screen between two GUIs already marks the office power user, a third windows on a single screen brings us into the territory of the hardcore nerds running tiling window m…

> I'm willing to bet 99% of users run their browsers fullscreen.

I have no idea what the statistics are, but I certainly never run the browser fullscreen and I rarely see others do so.

Re: Thunderbird: Fluent Windows 11 Design

#92

Post by ragnese »

perching_aix wrote: post #8
diggan wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> where we are now (tabs on top, no wasted space) Tabs at the top is wasted space, I much prefer my tabs on the side instead, as most web content is taller than it is wide, and I have a widescreen monitor. I understand the choice of tabs on top when 640x480 was the most common resolution, but for desktop usage today? Tabs on top seems like an outdated layout choice.

This is a popular argument, just one small problem with it: the 4:3 displays of old (640×480 et al) were also "wide" rather than "tall". So by this logic, there would have never been a time where horizontal tabs (or indeed, a horizontal taskbar) would have "made sense". So I think it's reasonably easy to see that this is not and was never the actual driver behind this decision. It's completely retconned.

Well, 4:3 is less wide than 16:9 or 16:10 or whatever else we're doing these days.

But, I do agree that this was likely never the driver. In fact, I've always thought the "obvious" explanation is simply that window controls and title bars are at the top, and since tabs are like nested windows inside a window, they would follow basically the same patterns...

Re: Thunderbird: Fluent Windows 11 Design

#93

Post by panzi »

_flux wrote: post #17
panzi wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People don't maximize their windows? I have a 16:9 4k monitor and I maximize everything (browser, IDE, image editor, terminal, mail client) except for the rare occasion when I need something viewed side by side (editor+browser, terminal+browser, 2 file browsers, etc.).

Is the web not a terrible experience in 16:9? My main browser window is closer to 1:1, and even then I have tabs on the left.

Most websites handle it just fine, for the advanced interface of Mastodon the screen could be even wider! For the rare website that doesn't handle 16:9 well I have this bookmarklet:

javascript:var%20b=document.documentElement;b.style.width='900px';b.style.marginLeft='auto';b.style.marginRight='auto';void(0)

Re: Thunderbird: Fluent Windows 11 Design

#94

Post by bshacklett »

ttoinou wrote: post #73

Do the people who style their app actually use their app on a daily basis for long amount of time ? It seems to me the basic design of app are often the best for eye fatigue, frequent usage, recognizing which information is where fast, contrast, low margin / good usage of space etc. The current design of Thunderbird is not pretty, but it's effective. I used Thunderbird everyday for 10+ years with 100k+ emails in 10+…

I would love to know what software Atlassian uses to maintain documentation, because I have a hard time believing they’re eating their own dog food.

Re: Thunderbird: Fluent Windows 11 Design

#95

Post by cosmic_cheese »

ttoinou wrote: post #73

Do the people who style their app actually use their app on a daily basis for long amount of time ? It seems to me the basic design of app are often the best for eye fatigue, frequent usage, recognizing which information is where fast, contrast, low margin / good usage of space etc. The current design of Thunderbird is not pretty, but it's effective. I used Thunderbird everyday for 10+ years with 100k+ emails in 10+…

Generally if I care enough to style/mod an app it’s because I’m using it a lot and its stock UI isn’t doing the trick.

Sometimes it can also drive me to switch to a different app, like with Firefox. FF used to be my secondary browser, but Zen (a Firefox fork) aligns with my needs and preferences better and doesn’t require userChrome mods and addons that are likely to break after some random update some day, so I switched.

Thunderbird would benefit from its own Zen-like fork in my opinion. Its UI has always felt clunky and awkward, and the “new” design just shifts around the awkwardness.

Re: Thunderbird: Fluent Windows 11 Design

#96

Post by 1718627440 »

runxel wrote: post #52
dazzawazza wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with you but it irks me more that the search doesn't find the content I'm looking for. Apple Mail search feels much more useful.

That we can search at all is nearly a miracle given the old and bad infra. At least they work hard (I hope) on replacing the old system with a real database. That should enable the conversation view (Gmail-like), too!

How would that look like and how does it differ from the conversation view Thunderbird already has?

Re: Thunderbird: Fluent Windows 11 Design

#99

Post by ShadowBanThis03 »

yoz-y wrote: post #63
ShadowBanThis03 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not if you're using side-by-side windows.

This. Side by side windows and horizontal splits make it so vertical tabs are not that useful. TBH in general I find tabs less useful as they multiply. Most of the time I just Cmd+A in chrome to search for the tab I need.

Not to mention that many Web sites are not optimized for modern screens, let alone truly large ones. There are still far too many absurdly narrow vertical text columns, riddled with tiny non-expandable images, on sites that appear to cater to 640 x 480 screens of yore.

Re: Thunderbird: Fluent Windows 11 Design

#100

Post by girvo »

bshacklett wrote: post #94
ttoinou wrote: post #73

Do the people who style their app actually use their app on a daily basis for long amount of time ? It seems to me the basic design of app are often the best for eye fatigue, frequent usage, recognizing which information is where fast, contrast, low margin / good usage of space etc. The current design of Thunderbird is not pretty, but it's effective. I used Thunderbird everyday for 10+ years with 100k+ emails in 10+…

I would love to know what software Atlassian uses to maintain documentation, because I have a hard time believing they’re eating their own dog food.

Confluence, and DAC mostly
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