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The Broken Microsoft Pact: Layoffs and Performance Management

danielsada.tech

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Re: The Broken Microsoft Pact: Layoffs and Performance Management

#91

Post by int_19h »

marssaxman wrote: post #73
int_19h wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google, Facebook, Amazon. Amazon is in the same ballpark AFAIK, but the other two have noticeably better comp. The "Microsoft deal", such as it is, was that it's a place where you don't have to grind hard. This has changed now though.

It certainly didn't work that way for me, back in the late 2000s - my stint at Microsoft was the most exhausting grind of my career. The common wisdom at the time was that different divisions of Microsoft had widely varying cultures, with as much difference as you'd expect to see between unrelated companies, so perhaps that was just DevDiv.

I was in DevDiv myself. From what I heard, Azure was where the grinding was at its worst.

Re: The Broken Microsoft Pact: Layoffs and Performance Management

#92

Post by sershe »

hackthemack wrote: post #24

I wish people were not so adverse to unions. The company will never be your friend. You will almost never have much leverage over what the company wants to do. The information you have will most likely be very asymmetrical to what the company has insight into, putting you at a disadvantage. Unions are imperfect. Unions will have its own inside politics. You will pay a union fee. I think humans are fundamentally flawe…

Yeah, look at union successes like dockworkers holding economy hostage via a legalized monopoly, while having more striking non-working members long useless due to automation than actual workers! I sure aspire to work in an industry like that.

Or like teachers in new York getting paid to sit in the rubber room as union fights for months to defend them after chronic drinking at work. I miss my beers in my terrible non unionized workplace.

And it's not like I plan on doing anything illegal, but if I ever misuse user data or whatever it would be nice to have a wall of silence (just need a color, blue is taken), instead of all those pesky whistleblowers.

I would especially love to be paid based on seniority and have (the small minority, but still) useless, lazy and incompetent coworkers I had keep their job and be paid the same, especially the guy I repeatedly caught playing fantasy baseball. He got fired (I didn't say anything, his lack of performance was also pretty obvious), I think it would be much more equitable and would really motivate me if he got to keep his job and was paid same as me.

Where do I sign up to pay only a small fee for these benefits?

Re: The Broken Microsoft Pact: Layoffs and Performance Management

#93

Post by hackthemack »

mathiaspoint wrote: post #87
hackthemack wrote: post #24

I wish people were not so adverse to unions. The company will never be your friend. You will almost never have much leverage over what the company wants to do. The information you have will most likely be very asymmetrical to what the company has insight into, putting you at a disadvantage. Unions are imperfect. Unions will have its own inside politics. You will pay a union fee. I think humans are fundamentally flawe…

There is not a single problem competent developers have that unions would solve and in many cases they would exacerbate the ones we do have. Most of the issue is that there's too much administrative policy (whether the imposition is internal or external doesn't matter) for us to effectively communicate and collaborate. Unions would only add to that while collecting fees from us. Most of us are intelligent enough to k…

"There is not a single problem competent developers have that unions would solve"

Question for you about this. Is the balance of power in negotiation equal between a lone developer and a company?

I ask, because in my little world, it sure seems like the company has way more of the cards than a developer does.

Re: The Broken Microsoft Pact: Layoffs and Performance Management

#94

Post by mathiaspoint »

hackthemack wrote: post #93
mathiaspoint wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is not a single problem competent developers have that unions would solve and in many cases they would exacerbate the ones we do have. Most of the issue is that there's too much administrative policy (whether the imposition is internal or external doesn't matter) for us to effectively communicate and collaborate. Unions would only add to that while collecting fees from us. Most of us are intelligent enough to k…

"There is not a single problem competent developers have that unions would solve" Question for you about this. Is the balance of power in negotiation equal between a lone developer and a company? I ask, because in my little world, it sure seems like the company has way more of the cards than a developer does.

It's more in favor of the employee than a lot of people admit. The problem isn't the negotiating power it's that there's so much noise when you're switching companies it's impractical.

Unions could only make that worse.

Re: The Broken Microsoft Pact: Layoffs and Performance Management

#95

Post by MandieD »

pjmlp wrote: post #84
hackthemack wrote: post #24

I wish people were not so adverse to unions. The company will never be your friend. You will almost never have much leverage over what the company wants to do. The information you have will most likely be very asymmetrical to what the company has insight into, putting you at a disadvantage. Unions are imperfect. Unions will have its own inside politics. You will pay a union fee. I think humans are fundamentally flawe…

In Europe though, usually European unions apply to everyone on a specific sector, regardless of what they do in the building. I enjoyed many years the agreements of IG Metal in the telecommunications and life sciences sectors, as software engineer.

IG Metall is excellent, and I highly recommend working for companies whose employment contracts were negotiated by them - that would be a lot of “traditional” German industrial firms. When layoffs happen, you find out over a year in advance, usually two or three.

I got my dues’ worth in just the agreement they quickly got to during the post-COVID inflation to adjust our wages. Of course, I would have still gotten it had I not been a member, but it takes people willing to be members to make them (us!) strong enough that employers take them (us!) very seriously.

Oh, and the pay is way better than a lot of IT consultancies here, not to mention the hours and general working conditions.

Re: The Broken Microsoft Pact: Layoffs and Performance Management

#96

Post by hackthemack »

mathiaspoint wrote: post #94
hackthemack wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"There is not a single problem competent developers have that unions would solve" Question for you about this. Is the balance of power in negotiation equal between a lone developer and a company? I ask, because in my little world, it sure seems like the company has way more of the cards than a developer does.

It's more in favor of the employee than a lot of people admit. The problem isn't the negotiating power it's that there's so much noise when you're switching companies it's impractical. Unions could only make that worse.

"It's more in favor of the employee than a lot of people admit."

But is it equal? It is hard to scientifically to prove, but it sure seems like companies have way more leverage than a lone developer.

I am not trying to antagonize you, btw, I am just seeing where you come from in your points.

Re: The Broken Microsoft Pact: Layoffs and Performance Management

#97

Post by wenc »

beisner wrote: post #89
wenc wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

SP500 can go down a lot and stay down for a long time. We went through this in 2022 when most stocks were down 20% for a year. SP500 is not a low risk short term investment. How would you feel if your rainy day fund lost 20% of its value?

I think OP is speaking about people who have 5x or more than their current salary in equities, where even a 50% temporary drop in assets will have no meaningful effect in lifestyle (and a long-term 50% drop in S&P would be apocalyptic, bigger fish to fry).

I think that's a bet that is contingent upon not getting laid off for more than a year during a period when there is 20-30% drawdown. If that happens, then any growth differential between equities and SPAXX's 4% is going to be wiped out -- in which case it was better to have stayed with SPAXX which offers liquidity and modest but stable growth at near zero risk.

It's not a sure win rule.

A better strategy is to hedge (bet maybe 3 months of your 1 year emergency runway), but that requires some acumen.

Re: The Broken Microsoft Pact: Layoffs and Performance Management

#98

Post by ChromaticPanic »

sershe wrote: post #92
hackthemack wrote: post #24

I wish people were not so adverse to unions. The company will never be your friend. You will almost never have much leverage over what the company wants to do. The information you have will most likely be very asymmetrical to what the company has insight into, putting you at a disadvantage. Unions are imperfect. Unions will have its own inside politics. You will pay a union fee. I think humans are fundamentally flawe…

Yeah, look at union successes like dockworkers holding economy hostage via a legalized monopoly, while having more striking non-working members long useless due to automation than actual workers! I sure aspire to work in an industry like that. Or like teachers in new York getting paid to sit in the rubber room as union fights for months to defend them after chronic drinking at work. I miss my beers in my terrible non…

I've always wondered how much one has to lick the boot until they stop tasting leather. Or maybe it's an acquired taste.

Re: The Broken Microsoft Pact: Layoffs and Performance Management

#99

Post by nessguy »

squatin64 wrote: post #62

why does this not mention ai? these layoffs are essentially only because of ai both indirectly and directly, perhaps not because of current impactful productivity gains but realignment of strategic resources to invest in ai infrastructure (capital vs labor) and then also likely preparation for the continued exponential improvement of models and coding agents which will require humans to get out of the loop essentiall…

There was a paragraph about AI somewhere in the middle.

> The AI efficiency narrative provides the perfect cover for these layoffs. Companies can frame headcount reduction as “leveraging AI to increase productivity” or “optimizing for the future of work.” It sounds forward-thinking and strategic rather than admitting they failed to manage performance or simply want to cut costs. Whether AI actually replaces the laid-off workers’ productivity is rarely measured or proven, but the narrative sells well to investors and the media.

Re: The Broken Microsoft Pact: Layoffs and Performance Management

#100

Post by sershe »

ChromaticPanic wrote: post #98
sershe wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, look at union successes like dockworkers holding economy hostage via a legalized monopoly, while having more striking non-working members long useless due to automation than actual workers! I sure aspire to work in an industry like that. Or like teachers in new York getting paid to sit in the rubber room as union fights for months to defend them after chronic drinking at work. I miss my beers in my terrible non…

I've always wondered how much one has to lick the boot until they stop tasting leather. Or maybe it's an acquired taste.

Ah, the insightful leftist response. I was born in the USSR, so this drivel doesn't really work on me. I hate marxists/etc probably more than even fascists/etc.

But regardless, American style unions are just a uniquely malignant institution. They do/did unions better in Japan for example or even in Europe; although I still think these are a net negative, compared to them US style unions are just tailor made to suite parasites and criminals. Or as they say, my opinion of them was better before I heard of the union-mafia connections, but now I've lost all respect for mafia.

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