Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The force-feeding of AI features on an unwilling public

honest-broker.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

91–100 of 421 posts

Re: The force-feeding of AI features on an unwilling public

#91

Post by oceanplexian »

einrealist wrote: post #86
bsenftner wrote: post #71

It's like talking into a void. The issue with AI is that it is too subtle, too easy to get acceptable junk answers and too subtle for the majority to realize we've made a universal crib sheet, software developers included, perhaps one of the worst populations due to their extremely weak communications as a community. To be repeatedly successful with AI, one has to exert mental effort to prompt AI effectively, but pre…

Isn't "Engineering" is based on predictability, on repeatability? LLMs are not very predictable. And that's not just true for the output. Each change to the model impacts how it parses and computes the input. For someone claiming to be a "Prompt Engineer", this cannot work. There are so many variables that are simply unknown to the casual user: training methods, the training set, biases, ... If I get the feeling I am…

> LLMs are not very predictable. And that's not just true for the output.

If you run an open source model from the same seed on the same hardware they are completely deterministic. It will spit out the same answer every time. So it’s not an issue with the technology and there’s nothing stopping you from writing repeatable prompts and promoting techniques.

Re: The force-feeding of AI features on an unwilling public

#92

Post by cube2222 »

20k wrote: post #90
bsenftner wrote: post #71

It's like talking into a void. The issue with AI is that it is too subtle, too easy to get acceptable junk answers and too subtle for the majority to realize we've made a universal crib sheet, software developers included, perhaps one of the worst populations due to their extremely weak communications as a community. To be repeatedly successful with AI, one has to exert mental effort to prompt AI effectively, but pre…

The issue is that you have to put in more effort to solve a problem using AI, than to just solve it yourself If I have to do extensive subtle prompt engineering and use a lot of mental effort to solve my problem... I'll just solve the problem instead. Programming is a mental discipline - I don't need help typing, and if using an AI means putting in more brainpower, its fundamentally failed at improving my ability to…

As with many productivity-boosting tools, it’s slower to begin with, but once you get used to it, and become “fluent”, it’s faster.

Re: The force-feeding of AI features on an unwilling public

#93

Post by milkshakes »

20k wrote: post #90
bsenftner wrote: post #71

It's like talking into a void. The issue with AI is that it is too subtle, too easy to get acceptable junk answers and too subtle for the majority to realize we've made a universal crib sheet, software developers included, perhaps one of the worst populations due to their extremely weak communications as a community. To be repeatedly successful with AI, one has to exert mental effort to prompt AI effectively, but pre…

The issue is that you have to put in more effort to solve a problem using AI, than to just solve it yourself If I have to do extensive subtle prompt engineering and use a lot of mental effort to solve my problem... I'll just solve the problem instead. Programming is a mental discipline - I don't need help typing, and if using an AI means putting in more brainpower, its fundamentally failed at improving my ability to…

> The issue is that you have to put in more effort to solve a problem using AI, than to just solve it yourself

conceding that this may be the case, there are entire categories of problems that i am now able to approach that i have felt discouraged from in the past. even if the code is wrong (which, for the most part, it isn't), there is a value for me to have a team of over-eager puppies fearlessly leading me into the most uninviting problems, and somehow the mess they may or may not create makes solving the problem more accessible to me. even if i have to clean up almost every aspect of their work (i usually don't), the "get your feet wet" part is often the hardest part for me, even with a design and some prototyping. i don't have this problem at work really, but for personal projects it's been much more fun to work with the robots than always bouncing around my own head.

Re: The force-feeding of AI features on an unwilling public

#94

Post by ethan_smith »

daft_pink wrote: post #2

The issue really is that the AI isn’t good enough that people actually want it and are willing to pay for it. It’s like IPV6, if it really was a huge benefit to the end user, we’d have adopted it already.

IPv6 adoption is actually limited by network effect and infrastructure transition costs, not lack of end-user benefits - unlike AI, which faces a value perception problem.

Re: The force-feeding of AI features on an unwilling public

#95

Post by cs702 »

Your may agree or disagree with the OP, but this passage is spot-on:

"I don’t want AI customer service—but I don’t get a choice.

I don’t want AI responses to my Google searches—but I don’t get a choice.

I don’t want AI integrated into my software—but I don’t get a choice.

I don’t want AI sending me emails—but I don’t get a choice.

I don’t want AI music on Spotify—but I don’t get a choice.

I don’t want AI books on Amazon—but I don’t get a choice."

Re: The force-feeding of AI features on an unwilling public

#96

Post by owebmaster »

isaacremuant wrote: post #81
justinclift wrote: post #79

So, are there any EU citizens around who are willing to create and run the needed European Citizens' Initiative to get this ball rolling? :) As a data point, the "Stop Killing Games" one has passed the needed 1M signatures so is in good shape: https://www.stopkillinggames.com

UK already responded saying "No, thanks". https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/702074/

The UK left EU

Re: The force-feeding of AI features on an unwilling public

#97

Post by mattdutra321 »

dijksterhuis wrote: post #61
blablabla123 wrote: post #30

I looked for the right term but force-feeding is what it is. I yesterday also changed my default search engine from Duckduckgo to Ecosia as they seem the only one left not to provide flaky AI summaries. In fact I also tried the communication part - outside of Outlook - but people don't like superficial AI polish

FWIW noai.duckduckgo.com is a thing

You can also just scroll down

Re: The force-feeding of AI features on an unwilling public

#98

Post by add-sub-mul-div »

bsenftner wrote: post #71

It's like talking into a void. The issue with AI is that it is too subtle, too easy to get acceptable junk answers and too subtle for the majority to realize we've made a universal crib sheet, software developers included, perhaps one of the worst populations due to their extremely weak communications as a community. To be repeatedly successful with AI, one has to exert mental effort to prompt AI effectively, but pre…

If this nondeterministic software engineering had been invented first we'd have built statues of whoever gave us C.

Re: The force-feeding of AI features on an unwilling public

#99

Post by jen729w »

sagacity wrote: post #75
mrob wrote: post #25

>Everybody wanted the Internet. I don't think this is true. A lot of people had no interest until smartphones arrived. Doing anything on a smartphone is a miserable experience compared to using a desktop computer, but it's more convenient. "Worse but more convenient" is the same sales pitch as for AI, so I can only assume that AI will be accepted by the masses too.

People didn't even want mobile phones. In The Netherlands, there's a famous video of an interviewer asking people on the street ca. 1997 whether they would want a mobile phone. So not even a smartphone, just a mobile phone. The answer was overwhelmingly negative.

I’m at the point where a significant part of me wishes they hadn’t been invented.

We sat yesterday and watched a table of 4 lads drinking beer each just watch their phones. At the slightest gap in conversation, out they came.

They’re ruining human interaction. (The phone, not the beer-drinking lad.)

Re: The force-feeding of AI features on an unwilling public

#100

Post by relaxing »

mrob wrote: post #25

>Everybody wanted the Internet. I don't think this is true. A lot of people had no interest until smartphones arrived. Doing anything on a smartphone is a miserable experience compared to using a desktop computer, but it's more convenient. "Worse but more convenient" is the same sales pitch as for AI, so I can only assume that AI will be accepted by the masses too.

Yes, everyone wanted the internet. It was massively hyped and the uptake was widespread and rapid.

Obviously saying “everyone” is hyperbole. There were luddites and skeptics about it just like with electricity and telephones. Nevertheless the dotcom boom is what every new industry hopes to be.

Post reply on HN