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Opening up ‘Zero-Knowledge Proof’ technology

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Re: Opening up ‘Zero-Knowledge Proof’ technology

#91

Post by ChuckMcM »

This is great. It really pissed me off when David Chaum locked all the cool uses of ZKPs behind a patent wall. The DigiCash folks were peak dot com greed types, their business model was "We're going to get big chunk of change out of every transaction ever so we should be valued at 1% of the worlds GDP!" And the world responded with "Yeah, no."

I really like Andy Birrells "micro-cents" which exploited the fact you could not easily reverse an MD5 hash so you one could cheaply do high confidence low value transactions at speed. Another idea that never got anywhere sadly.

ZKP ID cards and ZKP currency are both interesting things from the 90's I'd love to see in real life. Imagine I could pay you phone to phone with no network level of capability using a currency that couldn't be double spent. That was the promise of digicash. The government hated it :-). It was just like cash currency in that serial numbers could let you track the bank it left, and the bank it came back in to, but you couldn't track anywhere it had been between those two points.

Fun times. I'll have to see if some of my ZKP ideas can be built on top of this tech now.

Re: Opening up ‘Zero-Knowledge Proof’ technology

#93

Post by TuretzkyRon »

vvpan wrote: post #86

A cool technology that builds on ZK is zkTLS that can prove that you have access to some data on the internet, for example that you have an account with some service without revealing your username. So more private oauth I suppose?

but the server side does not have to support it on their end for it to be used

Re: Opening up ‘Zero-Knowledge Proof’ technology

#94

Post by miki123211 »

regularfry wrote: post #50
jjmarr wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not necessary, Uganda has been levying social media taxes on end-users since 2018 by automatically adding it to your cell phone bill if you access a social media website. About 2.7¢ per day of usage.[1] Virtually everyone gets their internet from an ISP that is regulated in the country that the user lives in. There are no technical barriers to implementing a permitting system in the United States. Linking connections…

Do you happen to know what the answer of this scheme to "I have a wireguard connection to another country, you can't see my traffic" is? I know that enough of the population would never bother so it wouldn't significantly harm it as a revenue scheme, but if your goal is avoiding identification rather than taxation then the stakes could be high enough to make the effort worthwhile.

> enough of the population would never bother

People have bothered with downloading low-quality Mp3s from Napster, figuring out video codex and modding game consoles to get free video games. If the need is dire enough, the users will figure it out, no matter how high the friction is.

Those with enough technical chops will figure out how to do it by themselves, those with enough intelligence will find resources on the internet, the rest will ask a friend or pay a local IT person to get it set up for them.

Re: Opening up ‘Zero-Knowledge Proof’ technology

#95

Post by 0xOsprey »

cyberax wrote: post #12

This might enable something like Scroll (the pay-to-view without ads network, acquired and destroyed by Twitter) but anonymous.

We're building a purpose built self-custodial payment rail using zero knowledge cryptography that could be leveraged for this use case: https://x.com/0x_Osprey/status/1925299005191577921 https://paygo.wtf/

Current benchmarks for proving costs are 33k txns per dollar and we expect this to go down x10-x100 over the coming months/years.

Re: Opening up ‘Zero-Knowledge Proof’ technology

#97

Post by [deleted] »

JanisErdmanis wrote: post #84
bobbiechen wrote: post #29

Anyone have a good explanation on the intuition of non-interactive zero-knowledge proofs? For example, I thought the "paint-mixing" analogy for Diffie-Hellman key exchange ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diffie–Hellman_key_exchange#Ge... ) really helped me handwave the math into "mixing easy, unmixing hard". https://blog.cryptographyengineering.com/2014/11/27/zero-kno... was a good intro for interactive ZK proofs but…

An intuitive explanation is that of proving you can find Waldo in a picture without revealing his exact location. Digital wallets can be interpreted as fancy signature schemes that operate on third-party issued commitments C instead of public keys that directly link users to their identities. A simple signature scheme is based on proof of knowledge PoK{x : pk = g^x}, which is transformed into a noninteractive variant…

[deleted]

Re: Opening up ‘Zero-Knowledge Proof’ technology

#98

Post by 0xOsprey »

ChuckMcM wrote: post #91

This is great. It really pissed me off when David Chaum locked all the cool uses of ZKPs behind a patent wall. The DigiCash folks were peak dot com greed types, their business model was "We're going to get big chunk of change out of every transaction ever so we should be valued at 1% of the worlds GDP!" And the world responded with "Yeah, no." I really like Andy Birrells "micro-cents" which exploited the fact you cou…

Here is one we are working on: https://paygo.wtf/

https://x.com/0x_Osprey/status/1925299005191577921

Re: Opening up ‘Zero-Knowledge Proof’ technology

#99

Post by Sancty »

vvpan wrote: post #86

A cool technology that builds on ZK is zkTLS that can prove that you have access to some data on the internet, for example that you have an account with some service without revealing your username. So more private oauth I suppose?

I'm excited for this to be mainstream. OAuth is definitely a step in the right direction, but many times scopes are broader than they need to be and can be abused. AFIAK, zkTLS can provide derivate values; i.e "You are over 18" (T/F?) verse "Your birthdate is".

Re: Opening up ‘Zero-Knowledge Proof’ technology

#100

Post by dop42069 »

vvpan wrote: post #86

A cool technology that builds on ZK is zkTLS that can prove that you have access to some data on the internet, for example that you have an account with some service without revealing your username. So more private oauth I suppose?

It works for private user data in adversarial setting. Like the outcome of a rocket league match can settle a $20 bet. Showdown.win
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