Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

US Defense Department will stop providing satellite weather data

text.npr.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

91–100 of 185 posts

Re: US Defense Department will stop providing satellite weather data

#91

Post by stego-tech »

“We shouldn’t keep trusting nation-states for meteorology data. They can and will cut off access if the powers that be demand it, even if it hurts billions of others by doing so.” - Me, circa mid-2010s

“You’re overreacting, nobody would be dumb enough to cut off access to data like that. Stop being alarmist.” - Everyone I have shared that thought with since.

Unfortunately, “I Told You So’s” don’t pay my rent, otherwise I’d have a decent home of my own by now. Here’s hoping ESA or JAXA help fill that gap until the UN can take over (an organization ideally suited for global meteorology tasks).

Re: US Defense Department will stop providing satellite weather data

#92

Post by skiboyec »

skiboyec wrote: post #72

My hunch is that the location of the satellites can be deduced from the weather data. These satellites would be a target in a time of war.

Hmm I think I’m wrong. From what I can tell satellites , especially those in LEO can be optically tracked pretty easily

Re: US Defense Department will stop providing satellite weather data

#93

Post by dmix »

skiboyec wrote: post #72

My hunch is that the location of the satellites can be deduced from the weather data. These satellites would be a target in a time of war.

Most plausible reason. National security hawks have always been extremely protective of intelligence even when the risk is tiny. Probably some DoD people (or person) wanted to keep it closed and new hawkish leadership let them do it.

Who knows, the Navy hasn't released any statement beyond "cyber security risks" so there's only politics to fill in the blanks.

It seems to be this agency https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fleet_Numerical_Meteorology_an...

Who recently got a supercomputer system https://www.montereycountynow.com/news/local_news/a-new-supe...

Re: US Defense Department will stop providing satellite weather data

#94

Post by alexpotato »

stego-tech wrote: post #91

“We shouldn’t keep trusting nation-states for meteorology data. They can and will cut off access if the powers that be demand it, even if it hurts billions of others by doing so.” - Me, circa mid-2010s “You’re overreacting, nobody would be dumb enough to cut off access to data like that. Stop being alarmist.” - Everyone I have shared that thought with since. Unfortunately, “I Told You So’s” don’t pay my rent, otherwi…

Michael Lewis, in the Fifth Risk, has a whole chapter on how during Trump 1 the head of Accuweather was basically trying to shut down free distribution of weather updates from NOAA/National Weather Service.

The reason:

For profit weather companies don't want free government weather updates going out to their potential customers.

PS. Having been on HN for many years and watched the full "disrupt old industries!" cycle, I'm not that surprised this is where we have ended up.

Re: US Defense Department will stop providing satellite weather data

#95

Post by sorcerer-mar »

skiboyec wrote: post #92
skiboyec wrote: post #72

My hunch is that the location of the satellites can be deduced from the weather data. These satellites would be a target in a time of war.

Hmm I think I’m wrong. From what I can tell satellites , especially those in LEO can be optically tracked pretty easily

Yeah I was going to say: you can also know where satellites are by looking at them. Obviously we're not publishing weather data from the ones with important natsec equipment onboard.

Re: US Defense Department will stop providing satellite weather data

#96

Post by skiboyec »

3-5105 wrote: post #88
skiboyec wrote: post #72

My hunch is that the location of the satellites can be deduced from the weather data. These satellites would be a target in a time of war.

Satellites using sun-synchronous orbits can circle the Earth multiple times in a day.Compared with a stationary observer on the ground,they are moving at a relatively fast speed.Therefore,as long as they delay the release of observational data by a random time period,there won't be this issue.Only geostationary satellites would have this problem. But a bigger problem comes before the above issue:most of the current h…

I did not see your comment before I left mine! But yes the second half makes sense.

I do think you might able to deduce the orbit even if the data release is delayed by a random time period. If you’re a foreign adversary that has its own satellites, you can measure the same information from a known orbit. Then one could compare the published data with one’s known dataset to deduce things like the angle from which the data was measured.

Re: US Defense Department will stop providing satellite weather data

#97

Post by sorcerer-mar »

stego-tech wrote: post #91

“We shouldn’t keep trusting nation-states for meteorology data. They can and will cut off access if the powers that be demand it, even if it hurts billions of others by doing so.” - Me, circa mid-2010s “You’re overreacting, nobody would be dumb enough to cut off access to data like that. Stop being alarmist.” - Everyone I have shared that thought with since. Unfortunately, “I Told You So’s” don’t pay my rent, otherwi…

People probably reacted poorly to this because it's hard to disambiguate from "we shouldn't keep trusting nation-states for x [because I'm actively working to profit from providing an alternative]" from "[because I'm worried others will dismantle it despite my best efforts to prevent it]"

Re: US Defense Department will stop providing satellite weather data

#99

Post by sorcerer-mar »

mtmail wrote: post #36
righthand wrote: post #22

This is part of Project 2025 to destroy the NOAA. [0] > Break up the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration. > "fully commercialize" the National Weather Service's forecasting operations.[1] [0] https://www.project2025.observer/?search=NOAA [1] https://www.project2025.observer/?search=Weather

One of arguments seems to be based on climate change denial "Together, these [six main offices of NOAS] form a colossal operation that has become one of the main drivers of the climate change alarm industry and, as such, is harmful to future U.S. prosperity. This industry’s mission emphasis on prediction and management seems designed around the fatal conceit of planning for the unplannable" "Scientific agencies like…

> "Scientific agencies like NOAA are vulnerable to obstructionism of an Administration’s aims if political appointees are not wholly in sync with Administration policy. Particular attention must be paid to appointments in this area."

Absolutely mind-boggling that someone can put that in writing with a straight face.

Re: US Defense Department will stop providing satellite weather data

#100

Post by gpm »

skiboyec wrote: post #72

My hunch is that the location of the satellites can be deduced from the weather data. These satellites would be a target in a time of war.

The location of the satellites is public knowledge. Satellites are trivially tracked from the ground - the amateur community does this whenever someone tries to keep the location of one secret: https://www.popsci.com/zuma-spy-satellite-amateur-astronomer...

They also don't exactly move much, it takes precious fuel to change a satellites orbit.

Post reply on HN