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What happens when people don't understand how AI works

theatlantic.com

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Re: What happens when people don't understand how AI works

#91
post #75

The thesis is spot on with why I believe many skeptics remain skeptics: > To call AI a con isn’t to say that the technology is not remarkable, that it has no use, or that it will not transform the world (perhaps for the better) in the right hands. It is to say that AI is not what its developers are selling it as: a new class of thinking—and, soon, feeling—machines. Of course some are skeptical these tools are useful…

A lot of the claims of usefulness evaporate when tested. The word useful has many meanings. Perhaps their only reliable use will be the rubber duck effect.

> A lot of the claims of usefulness evaporate when tested

In your personal experience? Because that's been my personal experience too, in lots of cases with LLMs. But I've also been surprised the other way, and overall it's been a net-positive for myself, but I've also spent a lot of time "practicing" getting prompts and tooling right. I could easily see how people give it try for 20-30 minutes, not getting the results they expected and give up, which yeah, you probably won't get any net-positive effects by that.

Re: What happens when people don't understand how AI works

#92

The article skirts around a central question: what defines humans? Specifically, intelligence and emotions? The entire article is saying "it looks kinds like a human in some ways, but people are being fooled!" You can't really say that without at least attempting the admittedly very deep question of what an authentic human is. To me, it's intelligent because I can't distinguish its output from a person's output, for…

> The entire article is saying "it looks kinds like a human in some ways, but people are being fooled!"

The question is, what's wrong with that?

At some level there's a very human desire for something genuine and I suspect that no matter the "humanness" of an AI, it will never be able to close that desire for genuine. Or maybe... it is that people don't like the idea of dealing with an intelligence that will almost always have the upper hand because of information disparity.

Re: What happens when people don't understand how AI works

#94

The article skirts around a central question: what defines humans? Specifically, intelligence and emotions? The entire article is saying "it looks kinds like a human in some ways, but people are being fooled!" You can't really say that without at least attempting the admittedly very deep question of what an authentic human is. To me, it's intelligent because I can't distinguish its output from a person's output, for…

> Another thing that I hear from time to time is an argument along the line of "it just predicts the next word, it doesn't actually understand it". Rather than an argument against AI being intelligent, isn't this also telling us what "understanding" is? Before we all had computers, how did people judge whether another person understood something? Well, they would ask the person something and the person would respond. One word at a time. If the words were satisfactory, the interviewer would conclude that you understood the topic and call you Doctor.

You call a Doctor 'Doctor' because they're wearing a white coat and are sitting in a doctor's office. The words they say might make vague sense to you, but since you are not a medical professional, you actually have no empirical grounds to judge whether or not they're bullshitting you, hence you have the option to get a second or third opinion. But otherwise, you're just trusting the process that produces doctors, which involves earlier generations of doctors asking this fellow a series of questions with the ability to discern right from wrong, and grading them accordingly.

When someone can't tell if something just sounds about right or is in fact bullshit, they're called a layman in the field at best or gullible at worst. And it's telling that the most hype around AI is to be found in middle management, where bullshit is the coin of the realm.

Re: What happens when people don't understand how AI works

#95

The article skirts around a central question: what defines humans? Specifically, intelligence and emotions? The entire article is saying "it looks kinds like a human in some ways, but people are being fooled!" You can't really say that without at least attempting the admittedly very deep question of what an authentic human is. To me, it's intelligent because I can't distinguish its output from a person's output, for…

Maybe it needs blood and flesh to be able for us to happily accept it.

Re: What happens when people don't understand how AI works

#96

The article skirts around a central question: what defines humans? Specifically, intelligence and emotions? The entire article is saying "it looks kinds like a human in some ways, but people are being fooled!" You can't really say that without at least attempting the admittedly very deep question of what an authentic human is. To me, it's intelligent because I can't distinguish its output from a person's output, for…

We cannot actually judge whether something is intelligent in some abstract absolute way; we can only judge whether it is intelligent in the same way we are. When someone says “LLM chatbot output looks like a person’s output, so it is intelligent”, the implication is that it is intelligent like a human would be.

With that distinction in mind, whether an LLM-based chatbot’s output looks like human output does not answer the question of whether the LLM is actually like a human.

Not even because measuring that similarity by taking text output at a point in time is laughable (it would have to span the time equivalent of human life, and include much more than text), but because LLM-based chatbot is a tool built specifically to mimic human output; if it does so successfully then it functions as intended. In fact, we should deliberately discount the similarity in output as evidence for similarity in nature, because similarity in output is an explicit goal, while similarity in underlying nature is a non-goal, a defect. It is safe to assume the latter: if it turned out that LLMs are similar enough to humans in more ways than output, they would join octopus and the like and qualify to be protected from abuse and torture (and since what is done to those chatbots in order for them to be useful in the way they are would pretty clearly be considered abuse and torture when done to a human-like entity, this would decimate the industry).

That considered, we do not[0] know exactly how an individual human mind functions to assess that from first principles, but we can approximate whether an LLM chatbot is like a human by judging things like whether it is made in a way at all similar to how a human is made. It is fundamentally different, and if you want to claim that human nature is substrate-independent, I’d say it’s you who should provide some evidence—keeping in mind that, as above, similarity in output does not constitute such evidence.

[0] …and most likely never could, because of the self-referential recursive nature of the question. Scientific method hinges on at least some objectivity and thus is of very limited help when initial hypotheses, experiment procedures, etc., are all supplied and interpreted by the very subject being studied.

Re: What happens when people don't understand how AI works

#97

LLMs are divinatory instruments, our era's oracle, minus the incense and theatrics. If we were honest, we'd admit that "artificial intelligence" is just a modern gloss on a very old instinct: to consult a higher-order text generator and search for wisdom in the obscure. They tick all the boxes: oblique meaning, a semiotic field, the illusion of hidden knowledge, and a ritual interface. The only reason we don't call i…

Maybe LLMs can be divinatory instruments but that sounds a bit highbrow going by my use.

I use it more as a better Google search. Like the most recent thing I said to ChatGPT is "will clothianidin kill carpet beetles?" (turns out it does by the way.)

Re: What happens when people don't understand how AI works

#98
post #50

LLMs are divinatory instruments, our era's oracle, minus the incense and theatrics. If we were honest, we'd admit that "artificial intelligence" is just a modern gloss on a very old instinct: to consult a higher-order text generator and search for wisdom in the obscure. They tick all the boxes: oblique meaning, a semiotic field, the illusion of hidden knowledge, and a ritual interface. The only reason we don't call i…

This sounds very wise but doesn’t seem to describe any of my use cases. Maybe some use cases are divination but it is a stretch to call all of them that. Just looking at my recent AI prompts: I was looking for the name of the small fibers which form a bird’s feather. ChatGPT told me they are called “barbs”. Then using straight forward google search i could verify that indeed that is the name of the thing i was lookin…

ChatGPT told me they are called “barbs”. Then using straight forward google search i could verify that indeed that is the name of the thing i was looking for.

Why not just start with a straight forward Google search?

Re: What happens when people don't understand how AI works

#99
post #60
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sounds very wise but doesn’t seem to describe any of my use cases. Maybe some use cases are divination but it is a stretch to call all of them that. Just looking at my recent AI prompts: I was looking for the name of the small fibers which form a bird’s feather. ChatGPT told me they are called “barbs”. Then using straight forward google search i could verify that indeed that is the name of the thing i was lookin…

What about the times you didn't get a coherent answer and you gave up and looked elsewhere?

Almost proves it is not an oracle then, not perceived as one.

Rephrasing: LLMs are the modern day oracle that we disregard when it appears to be hallucinating, embrace when it appears to be correct.

The popularity of LLMs may not be that we see them as mystical, but rather that they're right more often than they're wrong.

“That is not what I meant at all;

That is not it, at all.”

— T.S. Eliot

Re: What happens when people don't understand how AI works

#100
post #88

> These statements betray a conceptual error: Large language models do not, cannot, and will not "understand" anything at all. They are not emotionally intelligent or smart in any meaningful or recognizably human sense of the word. This is terrible write-up, simply because it's the "Reddit Expert" phenomena but in print. They "understand" things. It depends on how your defining that. It doesn't have to be in its trai…

> This is terrible write-up, simply because it's the "Reddit Expert" phenomena but in print. How is your comment any different?

Because I provided evidence?

And made the relevant point that I need know what you mean by "understanding"?

The only 2 things in the universe that know that 6 is the maximum white flag emojis for jokes, and then might be modified by plus signs is ...

My brain, and that digital instance of Claude AI, in that context.

That's it - 2. And I didn't teach it, it picked it up.

So if that's not "understanding" what is it?

That's why I asked that first, example second.

I don't see how laying out logically like this makes me the "Reddit Expert", sort of the opposite.

It's not about knowing the internals of a transformer, this is a question that relates to a word that means something to humans ... but what is their interpretation?

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