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The wire that transforms much of Manhattan into one big, symbolic home (2017)

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Re: The wire that transforms much of Manhattan into one big, symbolic home (2017)

#91

Post by bradrn »

foxwolf wrote: post #87

I'm pretty sure that if there is a god, then the act of deliberately subverting what you believe to be his laws by exploiting what you perceive to be a technicality for your own convenience isn't going to work out in your favor in the end.

Not at all. The Jewish perspective is essentially that Jewish law stems from the creation of an all-knowing God, and therefore any seeming ‘loopholes’ must not only be known to Him but explicitly intended to exist. On this basis, it must be perfectly valid to use them!

Re: The wire that transforms much of Manhattan into one big, symbolic home (2017)

#92

Post by sjs382 »

Infinity315 wrote: post #85

[flagged]

Depends on the group, but generally the owner of the land that the drug is on needs to be involved in its creation. So, for a sidewalk, the local government.

See this article that states that the path of a Houston eruv was leased from the city for 50 years for $1.

https://jhvonline.com/mayor-signs-new-rental-agreement-for-h...

Re: The wire that transforms much of Manhattan into one big, symbolic home (2017)

#93

Post by bradrn »

jaza wrote: post #68
emmelaich wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's at least two in Sydney. One near Bondi and one around St Ives. The one around St Ives was a little controversial but the council eventually permitted it.

Yep. The St Ives one involved a fairly protracted debate at the local council, with accusations of anti-semitism (whether warranted or not is a matter of opinion) being levelled at those who argued against it. Although I don't know if the Bondi and/or the St Ives eruvs involve their own physical wires? I thought it was deemed sufficient for the rabbis to just "declare" various sets of third-party power lines / phone…

Both eruvim have their own dedicated physical wires, yes.

> accusations of anti-semitism (whether warranted or not is a matter of opinion)

I live within the St Ives eruv. At least some of the opposition was unquestionably antisemitic — I recall receiving at least one antisemitic screed in our mailbox during the time of the council debate. (That one went something along the lines of ‘the Jews are trying to kick out all the non-Jews’ etc. etc., for two pages of fairly small text.)

Re: The wire that transforms much of Manhattan into one big, symbolic home (2017)

#94

Post by theshrike79 »

emmelaich wrote: post #83
rmason wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I remember attending a tech conference years ago in Dearborn, Michigan. One of the speakers was a devout Jew from NY City. On Saturday he taped the lock open on his hotel room so he wouldn't need to use a key. This drove hotel security nuts and one of the conference admins had to get involved because the hotels employees who were all Arabic did not accept his explanation. They were certain he was up to something shad…

There are hotels and apartment blocks that have physical locks as well as the swipe card. So you can use the physical key on the Sabbath.

So turning a key to open a door isn't work, but pushing an elevator button is?

Re: The wire that transforms much of Manhattan into one big, symbolic home (2017)

#95

Post by theshrike79 »

foxwolf wrote: post #87

I'm pretty sure that if there is a god, then the act of deliberately subverting what you believe to be his laws by exploiting what you perceive to be a technicality for your own convenience isn't going to work out in your favor in the end.

This is on the level of "if the bar doesn't have windows, Allah can't see me drink" of tomfoolery.

And I'm all for it. =)

Re: The wire that transforms much of Manhattan into one big, symbolic home (2017)

#96

Post by profsummergig »

Infinity315 wrote: post #85

[flagged]

OK, so the Jews have gotten their NYC situation under control. But what about all the vulnerable populations in SF, LA, etc.? We must group-fund an eruv for those vulnerable populations.

Also, this is a lost opportunity for ambulance-chasing lawsuits. Anyone know if anyone's been killed by their city being surrounded with fishing line suspended 30 feet in the air?

Re: The wire that transforms much of Manhattan into one big, symbolic home (2017)

#97

Post by amendegree »

foxwolf wrote: post #87

I'm pretty sure that if there is a god, then the act of deliberately subverting what you believe to be his laws by exploiting what you perceive to be a technicality for your own convenience isn't going to work out in your favor in the end.

Religious Jews consider your contention to be blasphemous, as it suggests there’s a way to outsmart god, which would directly contradict his apparent higher being status.

Re: The wire that transforms much of Manhattan into one big, symbolic home (2017)

#99

Post by gizmo686 »

theshrike79 wrote: post #94
emmelaich wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are hotels and apartment blocks that have physical locks as well as the swipe card. So you can use the physical key on the Sabbath.

So turning a key to open a door isn't work, but pushing an elevator button is?

Yes. There are several explanations for this, but the most popular ones are:

1) Making fires is prohibited work. Activating an electric switch causes a spark, which is kind of like a fire.

2) We have a tradition of considering using electricity to be work.

3) This is stupid, not using electricity is more work. Just push the button.

4) This is stupid, but having a day when we aren't all on our phones is nice, so let's keep all of the silly rules to not lose that

Re: The wire that transforms much of Manhattan into one big, symbolic home (2017)

#100

Post by [deleted] »

SlowTao wrote: post #73
vrosas wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My Jewish friend once told me, specifically discussing this wire, that Jews consider finding loopholes in their own rules a national pastime. The same thing goes for the hotels where someone is paid to wave their hand in front of automatic doors so the guests don't force the door to "work" for them or the elevators that run 24/7, stopping at every floor so they don't have to even work by pressing a button.

I am not the brightest spark as it took me a few months of living in a heavily Jewish area to realise that the pedestrian traffics light were configured to run every cycle so they didn't have to press the button. Probably a lot more details I also missed.

[deleted]
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