Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The Gutting of America's Medical Research

nytimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

91–98 of 98 posts

Re: The Gutting of America's Medical Research

#91

Post by os2warpman »

mystraline wrote: post #34
bediger4000 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There will be follow-on effects, too. Like "wellness" ending up on the same tier as "medicine". Without the research, who's to say? This will also compound the Qanon fascination with "medical freedom", where the patient gets to dictate to the doctor what to do (i.e. use ivermectin against COVID, or whatever other superstition rises to the top of the Qanon imagination cauldron).

> This will also compound the Qanon fascination with "medical freedom", where the patient gets to dictate to the doctor what to do (i.e. use ivermectin against COVID, or whatever other superstition rises to the top of the Qanon imagination cauldron). That's very double-edged. The open question is should humans have the right to take substances individually? Sure, you get Ivermectin/covid deniers. But you also get hom…

> Of course, even making and taking this drug you manufacture is illegal

This is not true.

In the United States GENERALLY SPEAKING you can manufacture any substance that is not on the list of controlled substances on the CSA Schedule.

You cannot sell it or administer it to others.

Also IN GENERAL you can consume any substance that is not illegal to possess or manufacture.

In the non-pharmaceutical realm there are a few additional restrictions, like ethanol (which you can manufacture for industrial use but not human consumption) and various nuclear, biological, and chemical munition components. (Don't know how many people are ingesting those)

If you have the ability, you can manufacture your own sofosbuvir and ingest it.

You cannot sell or give it to anyone else.

Re: The Gutting of America's Medical Research

#92

Post by bigbadfeline »

sorokod wrote: post #75
mystraline wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To the first, yes, I do believe that we humans SHOULD have a right to commit suicide. It should be a right to end your own life. We have a 'right' drink a handle of whiskey a day, up to the point we get liver disease. Same with smoking 3 packs a day of cigarettes. Same with horrendous diet. But those ways of killing yourself are "acceptable" and also legal. But they're slower. The second, you're harming other people.…

"you're harming other people", yes as in the case where you are contagious.

> "you're harming other people", yes as in the case where you are contagious.

Have you watched a movie lately? Talk about contagious violence. I can tell you this, your fate is just a blip on the back side of other people's large screen TV where the movies are shown.

Re: The Gutting of America's Medical Research

#93

Post by conception »

find wrote: post #79

Basic research has a lot in common with startups. The unicorn rate is The current research system has serious problems, but we need accurate criticism to build a better future. "YC is all wasteful spending; why doesn't YC just choose to only fund the hits?" is absurd, but somehow we allow this argument when discussing NSF/NIH/DOE/DARPA.

Never take anyone serious who says “The government is not making enough money/losing money on this.”

It’s not a business. Its job is clearly outlined in the preamble of the constitution.

Re: The Gutting of America's Medical Research

#94

Post by const_cast »

throwawaymaths wrote: post #87
jmuguy wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet the grant writing process continues, as the perfect shouldn't be the enemy of the good. I'm glad someone at the DoD thought that ARPANET was a good idea to research so that 60 years later we can argue online about whether the govt is just giving out tax payer money to whoever for any reason.

what a tired old argument. you dont know what would have happened if DARPA did not fund ARPANET. we might have had something better. we don't live with access to reasonable counterfactuals.

Au contraire, this is a tired armchair reasoning argument.

We don't know what could've happened, but we do know what did happen. It's like those people that say that the New Deal was bad, actually, and if we did nothing that would be the same or better!

Right... but no. Because the New Deal did pull us out of the depression. It's one of the most potent and effective pieces of policy in American History. We can play armchair economist all day. But we have to face what we know worked and think about why it worked.

Re: The Gutting of America's Medical Research

#95

Post by const_cast »

1970-01-01 wrote: post #61
biophysboy wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you think reproducibility will improve if funding is cut significantly? That is less money for labor, instruments, and consumables, which means less money for experiments, particularly for follow up experiments that have no deliverable.

I agree that cutting it won't solve the issue, especially without that long term plan, but at the current sky-high level of fraud, this just isn't science anymore. At what level of fraud do you suggest pulling the plug if not right now? Funding research until 90% is fake? 95%? 99%? Taxpayer money can be spent on many other life-critical areas with tangible results.

I just don't even buy this, medicine is definitely advancing. And, like, very rapidly. We have highly effective and safe drugs available today that were unthinkable 10 years ago.

Re: The Gutting of America's Medical Research

#96

Post by msgodel »

LorenPechtel wrote: post #81
msgodel wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Except the research institutions haven't become political. Rather, they continue to say things that the reich wing doesn't want to hear.

If I talked to the board of directors of my employer this way do you think I would remain employed? Why do you think public research institutions would or even should be able to attack the majority population of the country and not suffer the same fate?

I don't think you'll be able to manage the combination of self reflection and empathy required to understand this. Most people on your side are behaving in a similar way. It's why this stuff is going away and very unlikely to come back.

Re: The Gutting of America's Medical Research

#97

Post by Spivak »

bediger4000 wrote: post #90
Spivak wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually kind of disagree, when you can get more at any time there's no reason to want to save any of them.

Most people quit taking the antibiotics when they feel better, not to save some for a rainy day.

So then what's the fear? If they take antibiotics for a bacterial infection and don't finish it's same as the current state of the world. If they take antibiotics for a viral infection and don't finish them then no harm no foul if you believe the theory that this is how resistance occurs.

Hard to create a strain of antibiotic resistant bacteria when you didn't have any in your system to begin with. Turns out you can't #gatekeep #girlboss your way out of this and have to educate your way out regardless if antibiotics are behind-the-counter non-prescription or not.

Re: The Gutting of America's Medical Research

#98

Post by LorenPechtel »

msgodel wrote: post #96
LorenPechtel wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except the research institutions haven't become political. Rather, they continue to say things that the reich wing doesn't want to hear.

If I talked to the board of directors of my employer this way do you think I would remain employed? Why do you think public research institutions would or even should be able to attack the majority population of the country and not suffer the same fate? I don't think you'll be able to manage the combination of self reflection and empathy required to understand this. Most people on your side are behaving in a similar…

I expect scientists to speak the truth even if it's unpleasant truth.
Post reply on HN