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Google is using AI to censor independent websites like mine

travellemming.com

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Re: Google is using AI to censor independent websites like mine

#91
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't been able to get much practical travel advice from AI yet, any tips? For stuff like hiking routes, permitting, local cuisine, etc. I don't think it can replace a good blog from an experienced person at this point.

My experience with AI is that prompting LLMs tends to fail when the task involves returning a long list of alternatives and/or selecting niche options unless the user explicitly names them.

Do it iteratively. Ask the LLM for a long list of alternatives but without detail, only the names. Then start a new chat, paste in the list of names, and ask for more detail.

Re: Google is using AI to censor independent websites like mine

#92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Apple is like "I'm pretty content with how much money I make". What a laughably silly depiction of a multi-trillion dollar company. Their predatory app store policies, defended (and lost) in court, paint a completely different picture. Just one of dozens of examples. https://finance.yahoo.com/news/apple-executive-outright-lied...

I mostly meant it in the context of why they are so behind in AI... Sorry for the nuance.

Ahh, acknowledged. However, please understand, they also have a massive AI division. It was led for years by John G. He just got ousted from the position. They're just not very good at AI in their own walled garden. It's not for a lack of trying.

Re: Google is using AI to censor independent websites like mine

#93

I see it in a positive light. For me it means back to the roots. People will visit your website by typing in your URL directly into the address bar. Direct marketing and mouth-to-mouth will be a thing again.

How can living in a dark cave be seen in a positive light?

Re: Google is using AI to censor independent websites like mine

#94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And where the training data for your AI advice comes from?

That cat is out of the bag, don't you think? Even if the US passes a strict law protecting copyright owners from having their works used to train AI, China is not going to obey that law, so US companies will just fall behind.

That's not actually a bad thing.

Separate from the morality of the issue (which is clearly that you can't take things you didn't pay for), if such a law is passed, then either the US will actually develop a model that allows AI companies to properly buy training data from people, or China will excel in AI specifically, which doesn't guarantee much of anything at this point. If and when AI turns out to have meaningful geopolitical implications, then the US will revisit that situation, if needed (which is unlikely - companies will push for there to be a way for them to buy data).

Re: Google is using AI to censor independent websites like mine

#95

I can't get past the sloppy and inflammatory use of English here. This is not 'censorship'. It probably isn't banning, nor is it 'shadowbanning'. Google tunes its algorithms and lets the chips fall. Some win, some lose. While I understand how Google's dominance in search can have outsized effects on Internet commerce, the writer has near-zero credibility with me based on their writing. Honest people making honest sta…

He says that when he was invited to Google to discuss the matter, they said:

And Google gave us a clear and unequivocal apology. Google said our sites didn’t deserve our shadowbans, and that it wasn’t our fault.

Whether Google itself used the term "shadowban" or not, they clearly acknowledged the drastic effect of their algorithms that favor "AI". So we know what he means.

Re: Google is using AI to censor independent websites like mine

#96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That cat is out of the bag, don't you think? Even if the US passes a strict law protecting copyright owners from having their works used to train AI, China is not going to obey that law, so US companies will just fall behind.

That’s not at all how it would work. The cat is out of the bag in terms of people passing around models that are “illegal” in your scenario, though such models would disappear from places like Huggingface. Running a commercial service that touches one of those models is off the table and will be blocked, at the IP level if need be, in essentially all the countries that matter economically to Chinese “exporters”.

Correct, the main problem is companies stealing people's content and then monetizing it, not people passing around "illegal" models and using them directly.

Re: Google is using AI to censor independent websites like mine

#97
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That cat is out of the bag, don't you think? Even if the US passes a strict law protecting copyright owners from having their works used to train AI, China is not going to obey that law, so US companies will just fall behind.

This is becoming tangential, but to me someone at this point saying "ban AI company from accessing content without explicit agreement" screams virtue signaling to me, because it directly translates to "I refuse to acknowledge the reality of the situation and will just continue saying that we need to do the 'right' thing".

This is emotionally manipulative and fallacious. That's an invalid use of "virtue signaling" that also fails to refute the argument, and intentionally conflates the positive and the normative to push an agenda.

Saying "I refuse to acknowledge the reality of the situation and will just continue saying that we need to do the 'right' thing" like it's a bad thing is also implying that morals don't matter.

People who don't have morals don't belong in society.

Re: Google is using AI to censor independent websites like mine

#98
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>And where the training data for your AI advice comes from? It seems like the unstated assumption in that question assumes that the world totally depends on the information from small independent blogs like this thread's article. I.e. all other information sources would be derivatives of the independent blogs. There are many other sources of organic info to feed AI training. Examples: - transcripts of Youtube videos.…

Thanks, that wants me to use AI even less. Both examples has nothing to do with an open and free internet. Meaning I cannot trust AI at all. All those examples of data source here, also in the other replies, using mainly highly biased sources. Wikipedia (biased by a small group of mods), YouTube filtered by Google itself, pasting customer travel advice email heavily violates GDPR, social forums also funneled. If we l…

>, pasting customer travel advice email heavily violates GDPR

Not seeing how pasting text with no personal identity information would violate GDPR.

E.g. someone sends an email saying "For your career prospects, I think you should learn Rust instead of COBOL."

Copy&pasting that into AI or an AI scanning that sentence with no identity information isn't going to violate GDPR. There's no personal data to violate. (If the AI companies deliberately want to ignore privacy laws and want to secretly attach personal data to that "Rust/COBOL" sentence, then yes, that violates GDPR.)

EDIT reply to : >or the AI autoscans the customer's email inbox

That auto-scan scenario still doesn't require the AI to save the personal identifiers attached to text fragments. Many ways to do that without violating GDPR. Consider how today's global spam filters "auto scan" customers' incoming emails to automatically categorize some of them for the customers' "Junk folder" without any intervention or violation of GDPR.

Re: Google is using AI to censor independent websites like mine

#99
The alleged economic incentive suggested in the article, that Google wants to deal with "established big players" is literally nonsensical, something that the article itself arrives at, weirdly enough.

"But we later realized the shadowban really was about the type of website we are (i.e., small and independent). While Google gives large publishers an appeal and recovery process, small and independent publishers have no path to appeal our shadowbans.[...]"

That's not an indication of Google liking big players, it's the opposite. Big players have leverage against Google, you the small publisher do not, as you correctly identified in the case of reddit:

"[...]Unlike independent publishers, though, Reddit actually had leverage over Google. Reddit was the owner of a trove of historical user generated content that Google wanted for its grand AI plans. If Google could secure a deal for Reddit’s content, maybe that would spare Google the expense of negotiating licensing deals with the web’s many disparate publishers and rightsholders."

Google doesn't need to negotiate with you, they can kill independent publishers, which is why you're writing this blogpost. That's the entire logic of the internet platform economy. Kill traditional distributors, abuse atomized content creators. Youtube and Google hate publishers as much as Uber hates taxi companies and unions.

Which is why the literal reason given by Google is much more likely, they just don't think your content is good.

Re: Google is using AI to censor independent websites like mine

#100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's an orthogonal issue to me. IMHO, modern Google never really cared about social media platforms because it never really understood them. Caring (or at least wanting in) and not understanding are perfectly compatible. I know for a fact that a number of old googlers are still frustrated over Google Video got stomped, and Google having to buy Youtube in the end. > Otherwise it would have bought Facebook, Instagr…

>That only works if: 1. they see it coming Zuckerberg saw them coming though. That's why he owns a social media empire now, and wants to either own or destroy Tiktok as well. Musk saw it coming with Twatter, hell, even Bezos saw it coming, that why Amazon bought Twitch. Google leadership just doesn't understand social media, otherwise they would have bought a rising platform instead of building one from scratch that…

> Zuckerberg saw them coming though [...] even Bezos saw it coming, that why Amazon bought Twitch.

Which pertains to my reply... how?

> Musk saw it coming with Twatter

Musk saw nothing coming. He bought twitter in 2022 after getting baited into making a binding offer. Twitter was a household name at least a decade before that: news networks had direct twitter interactions and mentions at least as far back as the 2012 election.

And although it's been turned private and delisted, it's estimated to be worth just a fraction of what he paid for it.

> Google leadership just doesn't understand social media

Have you considered actually reading replies instead of going off with whatever your pet assertions are?

> That's irrelevant what old googlers think.

It's very relevant to your assertion that "google never really cared".

> Google has a responsibility to their shareholders to make line go up, not make some of their programmers feel good by keeping them working on platforms with no user base wile their competitors steam ahead.

That has nothing whatsoever to do with what I'm replying to.

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