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To Make America Great Again, We Need to Leave the Country

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Re: To Make America Great Again, We Need to Leave the Country

#91

Post by Udo »

radicalbyte wrote: post #63

I'm probably going to be modded down like crazy for this; just remember it's not a rant, I'm just sharing my perception of America as a whole. Hopefully you'll see some value in an outside opinion :) DISCLAIMER: I'm writing this based in a view of "average" America. HN readers are most likely far from the average. It's a view shared by many younger ( TL;DR: European views US as being backwards, socially underdevelope…

I agree with most of your points, but as a German, my perspective is a bit different (and that is really 50 miles to the East of you). For all the things that are objectively better here in Europe, I always felt a bit like I was born in the wrong country, like the US is where I really belong. Of course, me being a scientifically-minded atheist, the idea of really fitting in there is probably absurd in practice, but still the general feeling remains.

Probably it's all more related to the idea of America as a country of free and innovative thinkers. Compared to Germany, where the definition of progress is a carefully hedged illusion of marginal improvement based on immovable foundations, the US still seems like a country where big ideas can be generated and accepted into society. When I'm over there, I also generally get the feeling people tend to be a bit more friendly and cooperative in the Staates.

Re: To Make America Great Again, We Need to Leave the Country

#92

Post by climbingaddict »

The word "freedom" appeared in this piece exactly 0 times. Ditto for "liberty." A society cannot be both free and equal. Amidst America's large geographic size, high population, and many different cultures, there are two warring factions that will ultimately split the country in two.

There are those that espouse the views of the author, where privileges are derived from a central government composed of only the most intelligent and gifted members of society. The means of production are centrally controlled and wealth is distributed by whatever means dictated by the core elite.

And then there are those that want to live free. Those that believe that rights come from nature and from god, and that government cannot create rights, only take them away.

These two ideas cannot coexist in one nation. America has survived with both so far because of our size. But soon the division will be too great and we will hopefully go our separate ways. We tried once before.

Re: To Make America Great Again, We Need to Leave the Country

#93

Post by sliverstorm »

Udo wrote: post #91
radicalbyte wrote: post #63

I'm probably going to be modded down like crazy for this; just remember it's not a rant, I'm just sharing my perception of America as a whole. Hopefully you'll see some value in an outside opinion :) DISCLAIMER: I'm writing this based in a view of "average" America. HN readers are most likely far from the average. It's a view shared by many younger ( TL;DR: European views US as being backwards, socially underdevelope…

I agree with most of your points, but as a German, my perspective is a bit different (and that is really 50 miles to the East of you). For all the things that are objectively better here in Europe, I always felt a bit like I was born in the wrong country, like the US is where I really belong. Of course, me being a scientifically-minded atheist, the idea of really fitting in there is probably absurd in practice, but s…

the idea of really fitting in there is probably absurd in practice

Nah, just pick the right location. The USA has 300M people. A good number of them are scientifically minded atheists.

Re: To Make America Great Again, We Need to Leave the Country

#94

Post by antidoh »

radicalbyte wrote: post #63

I'm probably going to be modded down like crazy for this; just remember it's not a rant, I'm just sharing my perception of America as a whole. Hopefully you'll see some value in an outside opinion :) DISCLAIMER: I'm writing this based in a view of "average" America. HN readers are most likely far from the average. It's a view shared by many younger ( TL;DR: European views US as being backwards, socially underdevelope…

"My health insurance costs $150/month, and isn't connected to my employer."

If I could change one thing about the US, this would be high on the list. In order to have meaningful access to quality health care, you must have insurance, and for most people the only way to get good insurance is through your job. If you have a job.

Don't lose your job, because if you get sick society is quite happy for you to dry up and rot.

Re: To Make America Great Again, We Need to Leave the Country

#95

Post by pasbesoin »

greggman wrote: post #6

I agree with this. My eyes opened I ways I never expected by living abroad. I thought America was safe and it is compared to Somalia but not compared to may other contries. I didn't notice this because I've been trained to ignore it. I've been trained not to walk down dark alleys. I've been trained not to leave anything visible in a car when I park it or else it will get broken into. When it had been broken into Ive…

When, after years of paying premiums into it (net positive for it), the health care system suddenly turned its back on me. When the only recourse for mis-treatment -- even simply to fix the resulting problem; never mind about compensation -- would be to go to court (no matter how ill and incapacitated you are).

This is when I learned that the U.S. is fundamentally unsafe.

P.S. Personal anecdote. Not to compare to nor diminish the very real physical threats that others face.

Re: To Make America Great Again, We Need to Leave the Country

#96

Post by antidoh »

uvdiv wrote: post #9

Even when it comes to the "pursuit of happiness," enshrined in our Declaration of Independence as one of the noble goals of government, our citizens are only the 15th most satisfied with their lives. The text asserts the right of men [mankind] to pursue happiness, not the goal of government to provide it!

A good point, but not the only useful point.

The role of government should be at least as good as the Hippocratic Oath: First, do no harm.

And while it's not the government's role to provide happiness, the structure and practice of government should at least not hinder the pursuit of happiness, and better should promote it. And if a government action does not promote the pursuit of happiness (in the large) ... why are we doing it?

Re: To Make America Great Again, We Need to Leave the Country

#97

Post by antidoh »

agpen wrote: post #10

It's pretty telling that even an article trying to question the culture of unquestionable-exceptionalism is still chock-full of jingoistic language that says "if we just fix a few things we'll be the best country on earth again", as if such a thing was or is factual or even possible. Not "exceptionalism is a myth" but "exceptionalism needs a new paint job". This is what passes for dissent in mainstream American disco…

"as if such a thing was or is factual or even possible."

Or even desirable.

Re: To Make America Great Again, We Need to Leave the Country

#98

Post by Gmo »

lunarscape wrote: post #90
radicalbyte wrote: post #63

I'm probably going to be modded down like crazy for this; just remember it's not a rant, I'm just sharing my perception of America as a whole. Hopefully you'll see some value in an outside opinion :) DISCLAIMER: I'm writing this based in a view of "average" America. HN readers are most likely far from the average. It's a view shared by many younger ( TL;DR: European views US as being backwards, socially underdevelope…

"and the UK's main religion is a Atheism" What? The last census (2001, since 2011 results are pending) put Christianity at 72% and "no religion" at 15%. Surveys in 2011 by other groups put Christianity consistently above 60%. Considering the UK has an official state religion, a monarchy and unelected bishops in political office.. I can't see how anyone can claim the UK is "atheist".

As a Frenchman, I also can't see how you can call the UK "atheist" :p

BUT, I do think the number of religious extremists is lower. (I haven't lived in the UK though).

It's like when I hear people here (I live in the Netherlands) that they are not a religious country. The fact that they have several political parties with Christian root (and still being actively referring to them) among other things tell me otherwise ...

Re: To Make America Great Again, We Need to Leave the Country

#99

Post by kalleboo »

biesnecker wrote: post #2

This. I've spent most of my adult life outside of the US, after having spent my childhood and university in Florida. Now, when I travel in the States, I see a _lot_ of good everywhere I go, but it's undeniable that other countries are doing certain things better (I'd argue that nobody has it all together, though Singapore comes mighty close in my book). This is actually a great thing for the US in many ways -- we've…

> There will probably never be a repeat of the 1950s, where the United States dominated the world in almost every category

There will probably never be a repeat of the 1950s, where the rest of the developed world was mostly bombed to smithereens and working hard to rebuild themselves.

Re: To Make America Great Again, We Need to Leave the Country

#100

Post by oofabz »

randomafrican wrote: post #67
oofabz wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

France and Germany are not so two-party. In the 53 years of France's current government, they have elected presidents from four parties. In the 22 years since German reunification, they have had presidents from three parties and one independent. Meanwhile, in the last 159 years, the US has only had Democrats and Republicans. Also, even if minor parties do not get elected, they offer healthy competition and keep the m…

>France and Germany are not so two-party. In the 53 years of France's current government, they have elected presidents from four parties. It's really two and a half. De Gaulle - Pompidou - Chirac -Sarkozy were part of the same party that morphed and changed names everytime there was a new leader. Miterrand - Hollande are the other. Giscard was a one-term president from a party that has always been a junior partner of…

Does Germany hold runoff elections? It looks like Merkel won in 2009 with only 34% of the vote. If they use the same system that the US does, that is probably why their elections only choose between the main two parties.
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