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Slow software for a burning world

bonfirenetworks.org

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Re: Slow software for a burning world

#91

Post by danpalmer »

itsanaccount wrote: post #53
danpalmer wrote: post #12

I cannot figure out what Bonfire is . - The homepage has a bunch of "Bonfire is...", but they don't tell me much about how Bonfire achieves any of those goals like to be a "commons". - There's a codebase and documentation, but it comes in six different "flavours" , although I can only really differentiate between two. - Most of the FAQs just say "wip". - It proudly states that there are no ads, no tracking, etc, but…

docs seem pretty straightforward: - Ember - social networking toolkit - Social - fb/activitypub feed like - Community - fb groups (wonder if they have voting based admin) - Open Science - a peer review app? - Coordination - ticket/kanban/w/e productivity software - Cooperation - fb marketplace?

These seem like guesses. From the descriptions on the website I would have said the first three are public style social networking and the latter three are a sort of collaboration thing closer to project management tools.

But I don’t know!

Are these mutually exclusive or can you run all at the same time? Can a “social” talk to a “community”? Is an “ember” actually able to do anything by itself? Can a “social” talk to a Mastodon instance?

Re: Slow software for a burning world

#92

Post by grg0 »

graemep wrote: post #61
ebisoka wrote: post #29

These sites are easy to figure out. Go to Main Page Scroll down to go to the "Code of Conduct" Search on "Reverse" Read "Our community prioritises marginalised people’s safety over privileged people’s comfort. Moderators reserve the right not to act on complaints regarding: ‘Reverse’ -isms, including ‘reverse racism,’ ‘reverse sexism,’ and ‘cisphobia.’ or critiques of racist, sexist, cissexist, or otherwise oppressiv…

Ironically, its also an attitude that assumes everyone taking part is from certain groups. Most importantly, that everyone is from the west so racism is predominantly something white people do. Their inclusivity assumes the unchallenged dominance of their own culture. As someone who is not white and not entirely western I find it very off putting.

As someone who is white and entirely western, I find it very off putting.

Re: Slow software for a burning world

#93

Post by itsanaccount »

andrew_lettuce wrote: post #82
itsanaccount wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Best go ask their community engagement manager and head of product. I'm sure they'll guide you along.

We all - including you - know that's not going to happen; the onus is not on the customer to do this. Instead this project will fade into obscurity when the small group of advocates complete great school and get jobs in private industry

I was mostly making fun of everyone on this site reading my comment who presume non-capitalist ventures have such positions.

Don't include me in your prisoned worldview at the end of history. I'll point back to a similar comment on some dumb thing called Diaspora 15 years ago https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1324161

And then to non-corporate sponsored queerfolk making ActivityPub, a terrible failure ignored and forgotten (/s), and then to all the various Fediverse apps, who would never ever compete with Twitter, on and on and on.

The slogan "Eight hours' labour, Eight hours' recreation, Eight hours' rest", was coined in 1817. The Haymarket Riot was 1886. The Bull Moose Party's platform in 1912 included the 8 hour workday in its platform. It wasn't signed into law until 1933.

We haven't even began understanding as a society the importance of the digital commons and the need for communities to build their own online townsquare. Theres so much more to do.

Re: Slow software for a burning world

#94

Post by ikt »

Eavolution wrote: post #65
ikt wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Lemmy is 1000x better even if the total amount of users is less in absolute numbers This is so true, I've had to put a timer on how much I can use it as I'm addicted like the old school reddit days I think all it'll take is reddit messing up and lemmy.world might be the new front page of the internet

Reddit really messed up a couple of years ago with the killing off of 3rd party apps and u/spez generally being entirely out of touch, that made such an impact that to this day whenever I find a reddit thread on something I usually see a comment along the lines of "contents deleted in protest". That permanently lost me from reddit, I tried kbin.social for as long as it was up and I really liked using it. I never real…

Highly recommend Lemmy, the people who make it are a bit iffy but it definitely gives old school reddit vibes https://lemmy.world/

Re: Slow software for a burning world

#95

Post by mvolfik »

ebisoka wrote: post #29

These sites are easy to figure out. Go to Main Page Scroll down to go to the "Code of Conduct" Search on "Reverse" Read "Our community prioritises marginalised people’s safety over privileged people’s comfort. Moderators reserve the right not to act on complaints regarding: ‘Reverse’ -isms, including ‘reverse racism,’ ‘reverse sexism,’ and ‘cisphobia.’ or critiques of racist, sexist, cissexist, or otherwise oppressiv…

Hm, what does this say about the site in general? I understand that you disagree with the moderation guideline choices, but how does this "figure out" the whole site in your mind?

Re: Slow software for a burning world

#96

Post by bandrami »

RamblingCTO wrote: post #20
darkhorse13 wrote: post #15

Slightly unrelated maybe, but I'm really hoping that the https://once.com model would take off. That would be the change I would want to see in the software world. It's more simpler to understand than governance, public interest, etc. Just pay once and own the software. I really don't think software is that deep or has many philosophical implications.

But isn't that out of sync with reality? If I have to maintain software and put in more hours but only get paid once, I have to grow and grow and grow to keep getting paid. I'm actually developing a screen recording app for macos that's gonna be paid once, but will only have updates for a year. You can use it until apple changes APIs and whatever, but otherwise it wouldn't be a sustainable business model for me. I th…

I mean, that used to just be how software was sold and it seemed to work then

Hell, you used to pay a dollar for Android games and you just had the game

Re: Slow software for a burning world

#97

Post by ropepope »

ebisoka wrote: post #29

These sites are easy to figure out. Go to Main Page Scroll down to go to the "Code of Conduct" Search on "Reverse" Read "Our community prioritises marginalised people’s safety over privileged people’s comfort. Moderators reserve the right not to act on complaints regarding: ‘Reverse’ -isms, including ‘reverse racism,’ ‘reverse sexism,’ and ‘cisphobia.’ or critiques of racist, sexist, cissexist, or otherwise oppressiv…

[dead]

Re: Slow software for a burning world

#99

Post by AlexeyBelov »

rhet0rica wrote: post #85
benrutter wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't the reference and context backwards here? As in, the "you should read Popper" comment was in response to somebody saying they though opting out of moderation/censorship was not good. I think Popper would broadly agree with this, and say that moderating out racism, transphobia etc is essential for good discourse. This is all unfounded obviously, since Popper didn't ever use or write about social media.

Ah, an easy misunderstanding to make. The initial comment by ebisoka was not, in fact, in praise of moderation. The dog-whistle is the word "certain" near the end—insinuating that the Bonfire policy is to tolerate "racism and sexism" so long as it comes from minorities and is directed at the majority, following a quotation from the policies about how moderators may elect to ignore complaints of discrimination or infl…

ebisoka clearly came here to sow discord and pit groups of people against each other. Their comment history is very clear on that. What's really sad is that people took the bait right away.

Re: Slow software for a burning world

#100

Post by danpalmer »

danpalmer wrote: post #12

I cannot figure out what Bonfire is . - The homepage has a bunch of "Bonfire is...", but they don't tell me much about how Bonfire achieves any of those goals like to be a "commons". - There's a codebase and documentation, but it comes in six different "flavours" , although I can only really differentiate between two. - Most of the FAQs just say "wip". - It proudly states that there are no ads, no tracking, etc, but…

I once saw some software from someone who claimed they had solved business software once and for all. What they actually had built was a CMS where the data types were also in the CMS alongside the instances of those types. Y'know, like most modern CMSs. Their point was that you could build anything in it because it was so flexible, but when pressed to give real-world examples they struggled.

Another teachable moment for me was when studying Haskell, realising that the fewer type restrictions you put on a function, the less the function could do. This was counter intuitive to me – surely with fewer restrictions you can do more! But no, with fewer restrictions you know less about what you've got, and so there's less you can do with the data. This comparison might be a bit of a reach.

In a similar vein, Bonfire seems to be trying to be all things to all people, a network, and a protocol, and the instance software, and a community, for Twitter-like, or Facebook-like, or other types of social networks. Maybe it is actually everything social in one project, but that doesn't tell me how to use it. Maybe it is actually just a generic function with no real type data, that therefore can't be used for anything specific.

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