Live data from Hacker News

UK threaten to enter Ecuadorian embassy and arrest Julian Assange

bbc.co.uk

91–100 of 287 posts

Re: UK threaten to enter Ecuadorian embassy and arrest Julian Assange

#91
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Sweden, you can't charge someone without questioning them first.

[deleted]

Because whether he is charged or not, found innocent our guilty if charged or let go, it's certain that he will then be extradited to the USA where he has already been found guilty of crimes that actually aren't crimes due to his nationality and status as a journalist.

Sounds like pretty extenuating circumstances for a Swedish investigator to go to Britain to me, unless there's an actual law that says he MUST be questioned in Sweden

Edit: parent deleted their comment

Re: UK threaten to enter Ecuadorian embassy and arrest Julian Assange

#92

About time we started applying the pressure... Assange is taking his supporters for a ride, if he's not guilty why doesn't he go back to Sweden and face the questions? As for this "I offered to talk to the Swedes in the UK" business it's bollocks, since when has law-enforcement done things at the convenience of the 'accused' The whole extradition to the US is a red-herring - have you seen how easy it is to extradite…

For one reason the definition of rape in Sweden is rather interesting. There is no concept of consent rather the accusation is apparently based on the amount of violence. All a woman has to do is resist for there to be a rape case and prove so. The result is that generally it seems to be all the court needs to do is believe the woman. Hence you could have the case of there being what happens a lot in other countries, a boozy night out, consensual sex, followed by remorse the next day. However you can then charge the man with rape. It's this fuzzy line that usually throws out rape cases (In Australia at least, and this is not necessarily a good thing) where alcohol was shown to be involved.

I am not a lawyer, and not that familiar with Swedish law, but I would be Assange or his lawyer is, and is also aware that if the women are really working on behalf of some other agency there is a high likely hood of Swedish law working against him. If that's the case he is unlikely to get a fair hearing.

NB if someone more familiar with Swedish law could speak up about this that would be excellent. I would love some corrections about the above with supported documentation.

BTW as an Aussie I am horrified that our PM Julia Gillard condemned him without any proof, and even more furious over their lack of involvement to help an Australian national. Convicted Drug Traffickers seem to get more help from the Australian government then people only accused of a crime.

Re: UK threaten to enter Ecuadorian embassy and arrest Julian Assange

#93

Why does Ecuador even want to stand its ground on this? Why do they want to harbor Assange in the first place? Seems silly to escalate this to the national level when they don't seem to benefit from it in any material or practical sense.

South American countries tend to lurch from right to left and back. Currently Ecuador has elected to be governed by their anti-American leftist party. I would be shocked if they didn't grant Assange asylum just for the sake of pretending to save Assange from the US, if for no better reason.

Re: UK threaten to enter Ecuadorian embassy and arrest Julian Assange

#94

Isn't that basically an act of war? Or something just short of it? I can't remember another time when one country threatened to enter another country's embassy without an invitation... Have there been other cases like this in recent history??

I can't remember another time when a country used the diplomatic immunity of their embassy to harbor a fugitive from rape charges. We're in fairly uncharted territory.

It would be more to the point to say that they are harboring him from espionage charges. We don't have an international incident every time somebody refuses to wear a condom.

Re: UK threaten to enter Ecuadorian embassy and arrest Julian Assange

#95

About time we started applying the pressure... Assange is taking his supporters for a ride, if he's not guilty why doesn't he go back to Sweden and face the questions? As for this "I offered to talk to the Swedes in the UK" business it's bollocks, since when has law-enforcement done things at the convenience of the 'accused' The whole extradition to the US is a red-herring - have you seen how easy it is to extradite…

>> if he's not guilty why doesn't he go back to Sweden and face the questions? If he's not guilty, AND this isn't politically motivated, why not just go back? If this is actually politically motivated, then your question is fundamentally no different from "if you're not a terrorist, why don't you just submit to wiretaps / TSA body scans / etc..." If I was him and I was innocent, I would probably not expect to face fa…

Sweden is part of the EU and any extradition from Sweden to the US would have to permissible under EU Human Rights laws, which specifically deny extradition if the extradited person could be subject to the death penalty if found guilty of the accusations they're being extradited for.

Given that the US has filled no charges against him, made no extradition requests to Sweden or the UK, and that there seems to be a fair degree of legal consensus that the European Court of Human Rights would deny extradition for the sort of charges that the US could plausibly file against him it seems to me that to believe that Assange has credible reasons to try and avoid obeying the request that he attend questioning in Sweden for what would be considered fairly serious accusations in most western countries is to buy into a conspiracy theory.

Re: UK threaten to enter Ecuadorian embassy and arrest Julian Assange

#96
post #84

About time we started applying the pressure... Assange is taking his supporters for a ride, if he's not guilty why doesn't he go back to Sweden and face the questions? As for this "I offered to talk to the Swedes in the UK" business it's bollocks, since when has law-enforcement done things at the convenience of the 'accused' The whole extradition to the US is a red-herring - have you seen how easy it is to extradite…

Given the way the US government has behaved over the past ten years, the fear is not irrational. Also, we're talking about the possibility of extradition to the US from Sweden, not from the UK. http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/jun/20/julian-a...

Yes but if the US want him they can get a US judge to decide he has a case to answer and then seek his extradition from the UK, they don't need to go through Sweden.

Re: UK threaten to enter Ecuadorian embassy and arrest Julian Assange

#97
So it appears that both the UK government and the Swedish government have lost moral authority due to their behavior on this issue. And if they violate the Ecuadoran embassy that could be considered an act of war. At the least a cause to cease diplomatic and trade relations.

If Sweden truly just wanted to question Assange, they could do it via mail, email, phone, video chat or of course an in person meeting in the UK. All of which I believe Assange has already offered to do. But they've declined. Which means that Sweden/UK/USA's actual goal is something other than simply questioning him. It's a fact that he's neither been convicted or even charged with any crime (IIRC), especially not with respect to the supposed sexual "assault" incidents, which look like he-said/she-said instances at best, and a frame-up at worst.

Re: UK threaten to enter Ecuadorian embassy and arrest Julian Assange

#98

How rapidly people forget their history. Britain has a specific law on the subject because of an incident that occurred in Britain within my memory, a shooting of a police officer from within the grounds of the Libyan embassy. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Yvonne_Fletcher No, harboring Julian Assange is not just like shooting at police officers outside the embassy, but preventing the host country from contin…

And the world tends to have different views on requesting asylum due to political persecution vs requesting it to avoid accusations that you've committed a fairly serious criminal act.

Re: UK threaten to enter Ecuadorian embassy and arrest Julian Assange

#99

How rapidly people forget their history. Britain has a specific law on the subject because of an incident that occurred in Britain within my memory, a shooting of a police officer from within the grounds of the Libyan embassy. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Yvonne_Fletcher No, harboring Julian Assange is not just like shooting at police officers outside the embassy, but preventing the host country from contin…

The 1987 Act was a response to the Libyan embassy siege.

Let's face it if Assange does go to Ecuador then the ambassador is going with him.

Re: UK threaten to enter Ecuadorian embassy and arrest Julian Assange

#100

Bizarre. The usual script for these kinds of things is a standoff where the host country denies passage out of the embassy, so the person being harbored in the embassy is stuck there until either that person gives up, the embassy gives them up, or some kind of deal for passage or exchange is struck. Threatening to the invade the embassy isn't usually on the table, at least in peacetime.

The difference is that Assange did not simply ask for asylum. He agreed to go through the British Court system including posting bail under the solemn promise to obey the court.

Only when he lost did he go for asylum. Sincere asylum is not "Plan B."

Post reply on HN