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The group chats that changed America

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Re: The group chats that changed America

#91

Post by Apocryphon »

hsuduebc2 wrote: post #57

I have some hot take for this phenomena. As tech elites lost their untouchable image of being pure prodigies and visionaries, it became clearer — especially after scandals like Cambridge Analytica — that many of them operate like ordinary, ruthless capitalists. Public trust declined as more people moved online and more abuses came to light. Instead of fully acknowledging this shift, many of these elites seem to inter…

It's funny that the "economic anxiety" thesis for the rise in populism might also apply to tech elites. They hardly cared a few years back when the NYT and other liberal media organs started bashing tech nonstop while the boom was in full swing. Then they started swinging to the right just as the previous administration started unwinding ZIRP.

Re: The group chats that changed America

#92

Post by michtzik »

UncleMeat wrote: post #22
neilv wrote: post #7

[flagged]

The disinvitation data is so incredibly small that there's no way on earth we can call this "rabid." In Haidt and Fukuyama's "The Coddling of the American Mind" they present data on disinvitations attempts . And it is in the tens of attempts nationwide. They even have to present the data with Milo Yiannopoulos removed since he made up a considerable portion of all disinvitation attempts. You can think that students a…

The FIRE Campus Deplatforming Database claims to collect 769 successful deplatforming attempts.

Re: The group chats that changed America

#93

Post by ajross »

slibhb wrote: post #49
ajross wrote: post #29

This tracks with my experience here, watching tech thought leaders. Obviously Andreesen went very hard right, as did Musk, but just in general the tech elite suddenly and surprisingly turned Trumpy over the last few years; Ackman being a really good case study. Note that pg himself took a fairly surpising reactionary turn in right about the 2020/2021 timeframe this article describes. A guy who'd always been a left-ce…

[flagged]

> Complaining about wokeness doesn't make you right-wing, much less reactionary.

Honestly given the impact, I'd say complaining about "wokeness" pretty much defines "reactionary". Pronouns and flopsy straws never hurt nobody, and kids have been calling their elders racists and rapists and whatnot for generations.

Something happened to convince tech folks that "wokeness" was somehow a threat, when it clearly wasn't and never will be. And that something is interesting, and probably of a piece with whatever was going on in the echo chamber these folks found themselves in.

Re: The group chats that changed America

#94

Post by Apocryphon »

acdha wrote: post #64
ajross wrote: post #29

This tracks with my experience here, watching tech thought leaders. Obviously Andreesen went very hard right, as did Musk, but just in general the tech elite suddenly and surprisingly turned Trumpy over the last few years; Ackman being a really good case study. Note that pg himself took a fairly surpising reactionary turn in right about the 2020/2021 timeframe this article describes. A guy who'd always been a left-ce…

I think you’re right but would also add the nascent tech worker organization during the same period. I think many of these guys were bitterly resentful of the idea of workers trying to unionize or otherwise negotiate on a more even level, and that made the general political concerns very personal.

Not just tech unions but the brief shift in tech labor power also saw phenomena like the Great Resignation, overemployment, quiet quitting, etc.

Re: The group chats that changed America

#95

Post by Apocryphon »

slibhb wrote: post #81
AftHurrahWinch wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's significant that the comment you're replying to didn't use 'woke'. > Today, virtually everyone is anti-woke. I'd extend your claim. Tautologically, everyone is anti-woke.

Wokeness isn't hard to define. If you don't know what it is at this point, there's really no helping you. One of the lessons of the second Trump admin is that "smashing wokeness" may feel good (to people like me for example) but it isn't actually very important, and it doesn't make up for incompetence and lawlessness.

If people don't know what it is when they see it then perhaps it does not particularly affect their lives in any appreciable way.

Re: The group chats that changed America

#97

Post by [deleted] »

cptroot wrote: post #32

As always, Chris Rufo lays the game out in plain terms: > Rufo had been there all along: “I looked at these chats as a good investment of my time to radicalize tech elites who I thought were the most likely and high-impact new coalition partners for the right.”

[deleted]

Re: The group chats that changed America

#99

Post by pvg »

shkkmo wrote: post #61

I hope all the partisans take a lesson from this. When you try to force ideological conformity with censorship, you end up creating even tighter echo chambers that amplify groupthink and entrench the very ideas you are trying to combat. The best way to defeat an idea is to publicly tolerate and dispute it.

Andreesen has had and still has a massive public platform. People disliking your ideas is not 'censorship', it's just people disliking your ideas.

Re: The group chats that changed America

#100

Post by chimeracoder »

vuggamie wrote: post #77
doom2 wrote: post #14

HN seems loathe to have any meaningful discussion about or reflection on how and why notable SV figures seemed primed to embrace the Trump/MAGA right (see, for example, quote in OP from Chris Rufo). I don't think it was simply being repelled by the left, as Andreesson has stated before, but an earnest rightward turn. Also, after articles like these, will calls for "viewpoint diversity" finally apply to conservatives…

Like all other forums, public and private, HN has an ideological filter. I'm as surprised as the next person that the HN ideological filter turned out not to be permissive enough to discuss the downfall of the free society that fostered its creation. The oligarchs will not lose their freedom or power and they won't fight (or even inconvenience themselves) to preserve yours. Next time you're reading a blog or a biogra…

> Like all other forums, public and private, HN has an ideological filter. I'm as surprised as the next person that the HN ideological filter turned out not to be permissive enough to discuss the downfall of the free society that fostered its creation.

Is it that surprising? As a longtime member, this seems perfectly consistent with the general bent of the website. Collectively, HN has long been extremely comfortable with authoritarianism and far right ideologies, as long as those opinions are expressed in a framing that conveys intellectualism and "civility". Those same expectations are weaponized to drive out dissenting voices, which creates a positive[0] feedback loop.

Honestly, if anything, I'm surprised that this comment thread is (reasonably) lucid, because that's not how a lot of other comment threads recently on similar issues have gone.

[0] In the literal (non-normative) sense: a positive feedback loop is one which amplifies the effects, whether or not the end effects are "good" or "bad".

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