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Eurorack Knob Idea

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Re: Eurorack Knob Idea

#91

Post by rapjr9 »

mrandish wrote: post #64
JKCalhoun wrote: post #6

It's interesting. I haven't been sucked into the Eurorack thing though — do people want not just patch cables all over their mixing desk but knobs as well? Eurorack (and modular synths in general) seem like funny things. Like guitar pedals, I sense there are a lot of enthusiasts that do a lot more tinkering than actually playing them. Watching Rick Beato and guests on YouTube ... seems like a lot of musicians are loo…

> I haven't been sucked into the Eurorack thing though I'm the same. I love playing around with making electronic music on a hobby level and I find the idea and look of modular synths appealing - and I'm also a pushover for most retro things, especially those with cool knobs and blinkenlights. However, if I'm honest, I don't really enjoy creating music with modular or vintage analog "knobby" synths. I haven't ever bo…

Some people want to try new ideas that you can't buy ready made in a commercial synth or effects pedal. For example, trying unusual modulations, feedback loops, and signal dependent effects depth/parameters. Without a Eurorack you have to build a custom circuit to try it. With a Eurorack you can plug in some patch cables and quickly try it out. Think of a Eurorack synth module like a math symbol, you can assemble them to create an equation that produces sound. It's actually very much like an analog computer, where you can write an equation and implement it in hardware. It is literally possible to write equations and see what they sound like. You can do the same thing with something like VCV Rack though it's somewhat more difficult since to get physical controls you have to map midi controllers and may need a lot of midi controllers, which probably means manually labeling all the controls so you can tell what they do. In a Eurorack module each control, input, and output is already somewhat usefully labeled and defined by the module it is part of. So for some sound designers Eurorack systems are sophisticated sound design tools. You might use one to design a new kind of guitar effects pedal or to create a custom tweak on a specific sound in a movie soundtrack. Not that you can't just play with them without a coherent design in mind also, just to see what turns up.

Re: Eurorack Knob Idea

#92

Post by UltraSane »

Eurorack is very cool and I totally understand the appeal of having physical devices to interact with but one thing I never understood is how you can recreate a specific configuration you liked later. Do you manually document every connection? Or just take pictures?

Re: Eurorack Knob Idea

#93

Post by anigbrowl »

joemi wrote: post #24

It's an interesting idea (truly a clever way to accomplish this!), but I think it's addressing the symptom, not the problem. The symptom is that some jacks don't have associated knobs. The problem is that either the module designer or the module user is overly obsessed with miniaturization. The designer is at fault if it's a parameter that really should have had a knob with the jack and they avoided including one in…

The problem is that different people have genuinely different ideas on what kind of modulations are sensible. My go-to example on this is E-mu gear - a company that started out making big modulars in the 70s and went on to dominate the sampler/rompler space for about a decade before going bust during the dot com boom and being absorbed by Creative.

the nice thing about E-my synths was that they nearly all had big modulation matrices included, although users were often defeated by the 2-line LCD on their romplers. But one strange omission from the modulation destinations was filter resonance; all their later modules included a huge (arguably excessive) selection of filter types, but for reasons of computational efficiency you could not adjust the resonance while a note was playing. This wasn't too bad from the front panel because most people want to ride the cutoff rather than the Q, but the inability to modulate it inadvertently highlighted some limitations of the filter design.

I can see both sides, as I am a 'let me modulate everything' person when choosing gear but at the same time I quite admire 'opinionated' synth designs where flexibility is traded off against maximizing sweet spots. Sometimes it's better to have an instrument with limited sonic range but which responds very consistently within that, so 'you can't get a bad sound out of it'.

Re: Eurorack Knob Idea

#94

Post by anigbrowl »

m463 wrote: post #72
csours wrote: post #54

Ok, but why stop here? You've effectively created a rotary potentiometer in one dimension, you could add two more dimensions like an analog thumbstick on a game controller. Do any controllers have a twistable thumbstick? Also, like other commentors have stated - this could be a jack too, so you could have a jack knob analog stick. BUT WHY STOP THERE? You could mount it on a linear pot/slider. BUT WHY STOP THERE?! (he…

reminds me of The Parable of the King's Toaster... it ends with: The king wisely had the engineer beheaded, and they all lived happily ever.

IT consultant detected.

Re: Eurorack Knob Idea

#95

Post by anigbrowl »

UltraSane wrote: post #92

Eurorack is very cool and I totally understand the appeal of having physical devices to interact with but one thing I never understood is how you can recreate a specific configuration you liked later. Do you manually document every connection? Or just take pictures?

Neither, you just tell people about how great it was. Ideally, you don't record it either so that you can filter out the less imaginative people from your social circle. If challenged, you explain that you've moved on to a more abstract aesthetic, a musical plane which requires greater levels of commitment to attain.

Re: Eurorack Knob Idea

#96

Post by aylmao »

Very cool idea! It reminds me of how software works— you usually drag an LFO to the knob to modulate a parameter.

A few people have pointed out that the knob can act as an attenuator when it's being modulated via a jack, but sometimes the goal is space. I can also imagine a version of this that uses the same technique, but where the knob has an audio jack on it. You wouldn't need to unplug it to connect the incoming cable, and you could use the still-connected knob as an attenuator if you wanted to. This would get you the best of all worlds— maximum space, an intuitive interface, and attenuators if you so choose to have them.

Re: Eurorack Knob Idea

#97

Post by m_kos »

mrandish wrote: post #68
csours wrote: post #54

Ok, but why stop here? You've effectively created a rotary potentiometer in one dimension, you could add two more dimensions like an analog thumbstick on a game controller. Do any controllers have a twistable thumbstick? Also, like other commentors have stated - this could be a jack too, so you could have a jack knob analog stick. BUT WHY STOP THERE? You could mount it on a linear pot/slider. BUT WHY STOP THERE?! (he…

> Do any controllers have a twistable thumbstick? Yes, several. For example, the main knob on the Komplete Kontrol S-series MIDI controllers ( https://www.native-instruments.com/en/products/komplete/keyb... ) combines a rotary encoder with four axis directional input, a push button and an LED indicator ring. I have an S61 and the implementation of the knob is delightfully intuitive, responsive and functional. To be c…

I saw an encoder similar to the one you like in an ultrasound once. Here is another: https://www.ctscorp.com/Resources/Press-Releases/New-Three-i...

There is something satisfying in noticing the same solution applied to problems in different domains, like audio, medicine, and aviation.

Re: Eurorack Knob Idea

#99

Post by mrandish »

rapjr9 wrote: post #91
mrandish wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I haven't been sucked into the Eurorack thing though I'm the same. I love playing around with making electronic music on a hobby level and I find the idea and look of modular synths appealing - and I'm also a pushover for most retro things, especially those with cool knobs and blinkenlights. However, if I'm honest, I don't really enjoy creating music with modular or vintage analog "knobby" synths. I haven't ever bo…

Some people want to try new ideas that you can't buy ready made in a commercial synth or effects pedal. For example, trying unusual modulations, feedback loops, and signal dependent effects depth/parameters. Without a Eurorack you have to build a custom circuit to try it. With a Eurorack you can plug in some patch cables and quickly try it out. Think of a Eurorack synth module like a math symbol, you can assemble the…

Thanks for explaining the unique value you find in analog modular hardware.

> With a Eurorack you can plug in some patch cables and quickly try it out.

I'm curious if it's possible to do the same kind of modular interconnection with virtual analog plug-ins like Kontakt or Cycling '74? I've played around with Kontakt and it seems enormously capable and able to hook up operators and simple circuits almost down to the level of math symbols. I haven't played with Cycling or similar DSP environments but my understanding is they're literally programmable down to that level.

To be clear, I'm asking because I really don't know. I have a vintage Prophet 5 and the best DSP emulations seem to emulate it perfectly but with even more flexibility, extensibility, repeatability and no need to avoid oscillator drift or clean dirty pots :-). But I'm also not a serious synthesist or sound designer and I don't pretend to have golden ears. I guess at a certain point it may be quicker and easier to just wire up modules rather than assemble code modules in Kontakt, Cycling or some other DSP environment (assuming you have the right hardware modules on hand). But once you have to order or solder up different modules, I assume the plus sign swings to the software side again? Once again, not questioning the value you get from what's clearly working for you. Just interested to understand. As I said, maybe I am missing something. It might be that it's just something I don't personally care too much about for my needs, so it's all good.

Re: Eurorack Knob Idea

#100

Post by JodieBenitez »

anigbrowl wrote: post #95
UltraSane wrote: post #92

Eurorack is very cool and I totally understand the appeal of having physical devices to interact with but one thing I never understood is how you can recreate a specific configuration you liked later. Do you manually document every connection? Or just take pictures?

Neither, you just tell people about how great it was. Ideally, you don't record it either so that you can filter out the less imaginative people from your social circle. If challenged, you explain that you've moved on to a more abstract aesthetic, a musical plane which requires greater levels of commitment to attain.

Nailed it.
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