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Don't force your kids to do math

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Re: Don't force your kids to do math

#91
post #89

And then your kids and their same generation would be replaced by their peer kids from hard working boys and girls from India and China. Unfortunately curiosity only works with brilliant minds. Normal minds plus curiosity is useless.

> Repetition is key

Even with a "normal" mind. Train consistently to gain excellence!

Re: Don't force your kids to do math

#92

As someone who just finished school, I’m trying to figure out how to get genuinely interested in mathematics. I’ve never been particularly strong at it, yet I’m planning to enter a university program that demands a high level of math. The problem is, it’s hard to motivate myself to study math for its own sake. For example, I loved learning programming because it’s hands‑on—I can build something and immediately see th…

Haigh's Mathematics in Everyday Life [0] provides modern examples.

[0] https://plus.maths.org/content/john-haigh

Re: Don't force your kids to do math

#93
Related to what the article mentions, about playing cards, I tried to get my kids into doing basic arithmetic by playing "scopa"[0] with them.

Turns out, the one who didn't like math didn't like the game either, and the one who did like math liked the game too.

So I'm not totally convinced you can just "trick" kids into liking maths, tho for sure it's a way to get them to exercise.

[0] Scopa: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scopa

Re: Don't force your kids to do math

#94

> Without realizing it, he was doing algebra. A friend of mine taught remedial math at UW to incoming freshmen. She would write: x + 2 = 5 on the blackboard and ask a student "what is the value of x?" The student would see the x, and immediately respond with x means algebra, algebra is hard, I cannot do algebra. So she started writing: _ + 2 = 5 and ask the student to fill in the blank. "Oh, it's 3!"

There is a game called dragonbox algebra which I'm currently working through with my son and is an absolutely fantastic approach to this problem. Sadly its now part of a horrendous subscription service and is hard to access. I find it really sad that we've had computers for decades and there are so few good maths games like this.

Re: Don't force your kids to do math

#95
post #89

And then your kids and their same generation would be replaced by their peer kids from hard working boys and girls from India and China. Unfortunately curiosity only works with brilliant minds. Normal minds plus curiosity is useless.

I think the advice is good for younger children. The author is using 14+11 as an example. Very engaged parents can have a tendency to overdo it, so it's probably a good reminder.

As kids get older, they need to learn how to struggle and overcome struggles. (I would still caution against "forcing" math.) But yes, you need to start engaging hard work and determination.

Btw, the two are not mutually exclusive. Young children should be praised for struggling at things so they begin learning that skill, too.

Re: Don't force your kids to do math

#96
> Kids are born explorers. They naturally want to discover new things, including math.

That's true only until their senses are not shut off and attention is not fixated on screens. Exploration happens only when you have unused attention, sensory capabilities and need for a bit of hard work and risk-taking. Curiosity is less of a biological feature. It is a product of the need and the available resources (senses etc). All of these are missing now.

There is no need or motivation. And there are no available resources (senses, attention). There is no justification for exploration and hard thinking.

Re: Don't force your kids to do math

#97

> Without realizing it, he was doing algebra. A friend of mine taught remedial math at UW to incoming freshmen. She would write: x + 2 = 5 on the blackboard and ask a student "what is the value of x?" The student would see the x, and immediately respond with x means algebra, algebra is hard, I cannot do algebra. So she started writing: _ + 2 = 5 and ask the student to fill in the blank. "Oh, it's 3!"

The semantic meaning of a blank is much better understood to everyone than an arbitrary letter like 'x'. People just want to know why it's x and not something else or how a letter can have value. They might even think how can 24 + 2 = 5? They just want something to grab onto and nobody is really teaching the concept of a symbol in a math class.

> nobody is really teaching the concept of a symbol in a math class.

This was what? 5th grade?

What kind of crap teachers never taught that

Re: Don't force your kids to do math

#98

> Without realizing it, he was doing algebra. A friend of mine taught remedial math at UW to incoming freshmen. She would write: x + 2 = 5 on the blackboard and ask a student "what is the value of x?" The student would see the x, and immediately respond with x means algebra, algebra is hard, I cannot do algebra. So she started writing: _ + 2 = 5 and ask the student to fill in the blank. "Oh, it's 3!"

The semantic meaning of a blank is much better understood to everyone than an arbitrary letter like 'x'. People just want to know why it's x and not something else or how a letter can have value. They might even think how can 24 + 2 = 5? They just want something to grab onto and nobody is really teaching the concept of a symbol in a math class.

This becomes even more true in higher level maths where programming language style functions would make everything vastly more clear, and easily typeable, than the traditional Greek symbols. sum(x+3, 1, 4) is just so much more clear (and consistent when generalized across other operations) and practically as concise as the mathematical way of expressing that which I cannot even type. Multiple variables would be a bit dirtier, but still much cleaner than the formal expression.

Interestingly mathematical symbols in the past also regularly evolved. Then at some point we just stopped doing that and get stuck in a time which is arguably no longer especially appropriate. So we're left with rather inconsistent symbols, oft reused in different contexts, and optimized for written communication.

Re: Don't force your kids to do math

#99
Oddly enough I found a great 'trick' for this. Kids hate doing math tests, but turn it into a competition and game and suddenly they love it. Print out a bunch of remedial problems, perhaps 50. And then give them 1 or 2 minutes to do as many as they can. It's just a contest to improve against your own scores over time, with prizes for the kids who score the highest after a month or whatever.

It's still literally just a math test/quiz, but somehow the context changes everything and even kids who really aren't into math were loving it, and also improving rapidly because the repetition helps instill intuition.

Re: Don't force your kids to do math

#100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The semantic meaning of a blank is much better understood to everyone than an arbitrary letter like 'x'. People just want to know why it's x and not something else or how a letter can have value. They might even think how can 24 + 2 = 5? They just want something to grab onto and nobody is really teaching the concept of a symbol in a math class.

This becomes even more true in higher level maths where programming language style functions would make everything vastly more clear, and easily typeable, than the traditional Greek symbols. sum(x+3, 1, 4) is just so much more clear (and consistent when generalized across other operations) and practically as concise as the mathematical way of expressing that which I cannot even type. Multiple variables would be a bit…

The formal language of math is intensely optimized for rapidly communicating with yourself 90 seconds in the future, when doing a proof or calculation, turning paper into working memory. It does seem silly to use the same language for communicating with others across unkniwn but deep chasms of context. Its remarkable that it works at all
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