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How University Students Use Claude

anthropic.com

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Re: How University Students Use Claude

#91

Post by riohumanbean »

bko wrote: post #35
dtnewman wrote: post #14

> A common question is: “how much are students using AI to cheat?” That’s hard to answer, especially as we don’t know the specific educational context where each of Claude’s responses is being used. I built a popular product that helps teachers with this problem. Yes, it's "hard to answer", but let's be honest... it's a very very widespread problem. I've talked to hundreds of teachers about this and it's a ubiquitous…

When modern search became more available, a lot of people said there's no point of rote memorization as you can just do a Google search. That's more or less accepted today. Whenever we have a new technology there's a response "why do I need to learn X if I can always do Y", and more or less, it has proven true, although not immediately. For instance, I'm not too concerned about my child's ability to write very legibl…

Why have children learn to walk? They're better off learning the newest technology of hoverboards and not getting left behind!

Re: How University Students Use Claude

#92

Post by bigstrat2003 »

notyourwork wrote: post #67
kibwen wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The irreducible answer to "why should I" is that it makes you ever-more-increasingly reliant on a teetering tower of fragile and interdependent supply chains furnished by for-profit companies who are all too eager to rake you over the coals to fulfill basic cognitive functions. Like, Socrates may have been against writing because he thought it made your memory weak, but at least I, an individual, am perfectly capable…

Although I agree, convincing children to learn using that rationalization won’t work.

Yes it does. Plenty of children accept "you won't always have (tool)" as a reason for learning.

Re: How University Students Use Claude

#93

Post by moltar »

dtnewman wrote: post #14

> A common question is: “how much are students using AI to cheat?” That’s hard to answer, especially as we don’t know the specific educational context where each of Claude’s responses is being used. I built a popular product that helps teachers with this problem. Yes, it's "hard to answer", but let's be honest... it's a very very widespread problem. I've talked to hundreds of teachers about this and it's a ubiquitous…

I think it’s finally time to just stop the homework.

All school work must be done within the walls of the school.

What are we teaching our children? It’s ok to do more work at home?

There are countries that have no homework and they do just fine.

Re: How University Students Use Claude

#94

Post by KronisLV »

whatshisface wrote: post #58
bko wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When modern search became more available, a lot of people said there's no point of rote memorization as you can just do a Google search. That's more or less accepted today. Whenever we have a new technology there's a response "why do I need to learn X if I can always do Y", and more or less, it has proven true, although not immediately. For instance, I'm not too concerned about my child's ability to write very legibl…

I don't think memorizing poetry fits your picture. Nobody ever memorized poetry so that they could answer questions about it.

It doesn’t seem that different from having to write a book report or something like that. Back in school, we also needed to memorize poems and songs to recite them - I quite hated it because my memory was never exactly great. Same as having to remember the vocabulary in a foreign language when learning it, though that might arguably be a bit more directly useful.

Re: How University Students Use Claude

#95

Post by srveale »

dtnewman wrote: post #14

> A common question is: “how much are students using AI to cheat?” That’s hard to answer, especially as we don’t know the specific educational context where each of Claude’s responses is being used. I built a popular product that helps teachers with this problem. Yes, it's "hard to answer", but let's be honest... it's a very very widespread problem. I've talked to hundreds of teachers about this and it's a ubiquitous…

IMO it's so easy to ChatGPT your homework that the whole education model needs to flip on its head. Some teachers already do something like this, it's called the "Flipped classroom" approach.

Basically, a student's marks depend mostly (only?) on what they can do in a setting where AI is verifiably unavailable. It means less class time for instruction, but students have a tutor in their pocket anyway.

I've also talked with a bunch of teachers and a couple admins about this. They agree it's a huge problem. By the same token, they are using AI to create their lesson plans and assignments! Not fully of course, they edit the output using their expertise. But it's funny to imagine AI completing an AI assignment with the humans just along for the ride.

The point is, if you actually want to know what a student is capable of, you need to watch them doing it. Assigning homework has lost all meaning.

Re: How University Students Use Claude

#96

Post by theLiminator »

hackyhacky wrote: post #70
kibwen wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The irreducible answer to "why should I" is that it makes you ever-more-increasingly reliant on a teetering tower of fragile and interdependent supply chains furnished by for-profit companies who are all too eager to rake you over the coals to fulfill basic cognitive functions. Like, Socrates may have been against writing because he thought it made your memory weak, but at least I, an individual, am perfectly capable…

> The irreducible answer to "why should I" is that it makes you ever-more-increasingly reliant on a teetering tower of fragile and interdependent supply chains furnished by for-profit companies who are all too eager to rake you over the coals to fulfill basic cognitive functions. Yes, but that horse has long ago left the barn. I don't know how to grow crops, build a house, tend livestock, make clothes, weld metal, bu…

I think removing pointless cognitive load makes sense, but the point of an education is to learn how to think/reason. Maybe if we get AGI there's no point learning that either, but it is definitely not great if we get a whole generation who skip learning how to problem solve/think due to using LLMs.

IMO it's quite different than using a calculator or any other tool. It can currently completely replace the human in the loop, whereas with other tools they are generally just a step in the process.

Re: How University Students Use Claude

#97

Post by [deleted] »

ryandrake wrote: post #77
hackyhacky wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The irreducible answer to "why should I" is that it makes you ever-more-increasingly reliant on a teetering tower of fragile and interdependent supply chains furnished by for-profit companies who are all too eager to rake you over the coals to fulfill basic cognitive functions. Yes, but that horse has long ago left the barn. I don't know how to grow crops, build a house, tend livestock, make clothes, weld metal, bu…

This reply brings to mind the well-known Heinlein quote: A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallan…

[deleted]

Re: How University Students Use Claude

#98

Post by user432678 »

papichulo2023 wrote: post #29
ilrwbwrkhv wrote: post #3

AI bubble seems close to collapsing. God knows how many billions have been invested and we still don't have an actual use case for AI which is good for humanity.

It is helping me do that projects that would otherwise take me hours in just a few minutes, soooo, shrug.

What kind of projects are those? I am genuinely curious. I was excited by AI, Claude specifically, since I am an avid procrastinator and would love to finish tens of projects I have in mind. Most of those projects are games with specifical constraints. I got disenchanted pretty quickly when started actually using AI to help with different parts of the game programming. Majority of problems I had are related to poor understanding of generated code. I mean yes, I read the code, fixed minor issues, but it always feels like I don’t really internalised the parts of the game which slows me down quite significantly in a long run, when I need to plan major changes. Probably a skill issue, but for now the only thing AI is helpful for me is populating Jira descriptions for my “big picture refactoring” work. That’s basically it.

Re: How University Students Use Claude

#99

Post by lunarboy »

moojacob wrote: post #86

How can I, as a student, avoid hindering my learning with language models? I use Claude, a lot. I’ll upload the slides and ask questions. I’ve talked to Claude for hours trying to break down a problem. I think I’m learning more. But what I think might not be what’s happening. In one of my machine learning classes, cheating is a huge issue. People are using LMs to answer multiple choice questions on quizzes that are o…

This sounds fine? Copy pasting LLM output without understanding is a short term dopamine hit that only hurts you long term if you don't understand it. If you struggle first, or strategically ping-pong with the LLM to arrive at the answer, and can ultimately understand the underlying reasoning.. why not use it?

Of course the problem is the much lower barrier for that to turn into cutting corners or full on cheating, but always remember it ultimately hurts you the most long term.

Re: How University Students Use Claude

#100

Post by CivBase »

bko wrote: post #35
dtnewman wrote: post #14

> A common question is: “how much are students using AI to cheat?” That’s hard to answer, especially as we don’t know the specific educational context where each of Claude’s responses is being used. I built a popular product that helps teachers with this problem. Yes, it's "hard to answer", but let's be honest... it's a very very widespread problem. I've talked to hundreds of teachers about this and it's a ubiquitous…

When modern search became more available, a lot of people said there's no point of rote memorization as you can just do a Google search. That's more or less accepted today. Whenever we have a new technology there's a response "why do I need to learn X if I can always do Y", and more or less, it has proven true, although not immediately. For instance, I'm not too concerned about my child's ability to write very legibl…

Why should you learn how to add when you can just use a calculator? We've had calculators for decades!

Because understanding how addition works is instrumental to understanding more advanced math concepts. And being able to perform simple addition quickly, without a calculator is a huge productivity boost for many tasks.

In the world of education and intellectual development it's not about getting the right answer as quickly as possible. It's about mastering simple things so that you can understand complicated things. And often times mastering a simple thing requires you to manually do things which technology could automate.

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