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Rules for Negotiating a Job Offer (2016)

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Re: Rules for Negotiating a Job Offer (2016)

#91

Post by neilv »

hyperadvanced wrote: post #83
Jcampuzano2 wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would someone not then just tell every recruiter/company they are interviewing with that they already have offers are are in the pipeline at other companies even if they don't. We've heard nowadays how hard it is to even get to the interview for many companies so theres probably plenty of candidates who do not have many other offers prepared or even close to prepared. Another issue is timing. Theres been times wh…

Presumably there’s a karmic payoff for this, or someone at X company knows someone at Y who can tell them whether or not you’re actually in the pipeline or have received an offer. Perhaps there’s an element of bluffing or calling bluffs in all of this.

I like karma, but wouldn't checking have the appearance of illegal collusion between the companies? For example, would it look like they were price-fixing?

"Oh, your honor, I was only checking whether they had an offer. We totally weren't discussing how we'd not raise our offers, with the goal of suppressing wages."

Re: Rules for Negotiating a Job Offer (2016)

#92

Post by whatshisface »

hardwaregeek wrote: post #89

With most tech career advice on the internet, I would check to see if it was written before 2022. If so, I'd take it with a grain of salt. I wrote tech advice in the ZIRP times. It was a very different market. Negotiation is still a valid tactic but there's a lot more to lose and a lot fewer offers than in 2021.

Negotiation isn't a tactic, it's the basic thing you are doing.

Re: Rules for Negotiating a Job Offer (2016)

#93

Post by bdangubic »

dlevine wrote: post #90
silisili wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Has that been recently? I've read the market has been brutal lately, but I haven't had to look myself, thankfully.

I’m job searching right now, and it’s definitely not the doom and gloom that I’m hearing about. I think it’s a challenging environment for developers who are either inexperienced or who have skills that are out of date. I have found that companies are a bit more picky than i remember about knowing the exact tech stack they use, but they are still making offers and those offers are pretty good. Note that I’m applying…

this is EXACTLY where everyone should be applying… too many people are nuts to work at faang, I can live 50 lifetimes and never understand it.

Re: Rules for Negotiating a Job Offer (2016)

#94

Post by hyperadvanced »

neilv wrote: post #91
hyperadvanced wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Presumably there’s a karmic payoff for this, or someone at X company knows someone at Y who can tell them whether or not you’re actually in the pipeline or have received an offer. Perhaps there’s an element of bluffing or calling bluffs in all of this.

I like karma, but wouldn't checking have the appearance of illegal collusion between the companies? For example, would it look like they were price-fixing? "Oh, your honor, I was only checking whether they had an offer. We totally weren't discussing how we'd not raise our offers, with the goal of suppressing wages."

iirc there’s already an app for that in some sense, and a good amount of plausible deniability and backroom politics that can make up for any potential lawsuit. Similar issue to “proving” any kind of discrimination: a smooth corporate operator can CYA well enough to create a fake paper trail to justify any sort of decision making.

Re: Rules for Negotiating a Job Offer (2016)

#95

Post by soupfordummies »

atrettel wrote: post #71
taklimakan wrote: post #12

This is all very interesting, but is complete fiction for most readers. 99% of job seekers aren’t going to receive competing offers from multiple companies conveniently at the same time.

And even if you receive two or more offers at once, many organizations don't bother negotiating. One time I received two offers at once, and neither organization was willing to change anything substantive about their offers. In this case, one organization had an onerous IP policy and that other did not. I asked for some carve-outs, and the first organization came back with a single line added to the IP policy that di…

Yeah well at least you tried, sometimes that’s just how it plays out. You might be surprised by how many people don’t even realize you CAN negotiate a job offer. I think it’s a little more well known among tech workers maybe?

Re: Rules for Negotiating a Job Offer (2016)

#96

Post by yieldcrv »

Aeolun wrote: post #41
aozgaa wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is addressed in the article: > Turns out, it doesn’t matter that much where your first offer is from, or even how much they’re offering you. Just having an offer in hand will get the engine running. > If you’re already in the pipeline with other companies (which you should be if you’re doing it right), you should proactively reach out and let them know that you’ve just received an offer. Try to build a sense of…

Me too. It was utterly bizarre. Spent 6 month looking for a job, with I don’t know how many failed interviews, then I got one offer for a 6 month contract, and suddenly the next two companies I interviewed with were falling over themselves to give me a permanent one. I just do not see how that works. There’s no logical reason for it.

I have also experienced this and subsequently bluffed it.

I told a startup that I “was talking to Meta”, and they were like ok we cant compete with that. I hadnt even done leetcode yet I was just doing emails with Meta’s recruiter. I told the startup that its okay because I will be stuck in team matching for 6 months, and the startup bumped my salary 30%.

Re: Rules for Negotiating a Job Offer (2016)

#97

Post by hyperadvanced »

woleium wrote: post #87
hyperadvanced wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Presumably there’s a karmic payoff for this, or someone at X company knows someone at Y who can tell them whether or not you’re actually in the pipeline or have received an offer. Perhaps there’s an element of bluffing or calling bluffs in all of this.

there is also the risk of getting black listed for lying.

I’d file that under the karmic payout thing. I personally hire and fire people but don’t have The Blacklist handy, and I’m not really sure that it exists outside of Roko’s basilisk-esque sense, in which it could be really bad if it really did.

Re: Rules for Negotiating a Job Offer (2016)

#98

Post by bdangubic »

echelon wrote: post #34
jckahn wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seriously. Getting even one underwhelming offer is beating the odds these days.

This article must've been written in Spring 2022. Tech hiring is now like 2008 or post-dotcom. The question is whether it will return to what it once was. The big tech companies are monopolies, no longer afraid that they have to employ "all the engineers" to prevent competition. ZIRP isn't there to give rise to startups, or to give the tech companies unlimited leeway in development. If interest rates drop or big tech…

your whole problem is that you want to work at big tech. I still get a whole lot of perks (not massages :) ) working for small private companies making MUCH more money now than 2016… big tech bubble is killing a whole lot of careers these days, tech hiring now is actually pretty good, I get emails from companies and recruiters (even though I virtually do not exist publicly, e.g. linkedin etc…) weekly or less

Re: Rules for Negotiating a Job Offer (2016)

#99

Post by yieldcrv »

hyperadvanced wrote: post #83
Jcampuzano2 wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would someone not then just tell every recruiter/company they are interviewing with that they already have offers are are in the pipeline at other companies even if they don't. We've heard nowadays how hard it is to even get to the interview for many companies so theres probably plenty of candidates who do not have many other offers prepared or even close to prepared. Another issue is timing. Theres been times wh…

Presumably there’s a karmic payoff for this, or someone at X company knows someone at Y who can tell them whether or not you’re actually in the pipeline or have received an offer. Perhaps there’s an element of bluffing or calling bluffs in all of this.

False. Whatever you got told in primary school was a lie.

Re: Rules for Negotiating a Job Offer (2016)

#100

Post by [deleted] »

ryandrake wrote: post #35
taklimakan wrote: post #12

This is all very interesting, but is complete fiction for most readers. 99% of job seekers aren’t going to receive competing offers from multiple companies conveniently at the same time.

In a 25 year career, I've never really managed to significantly negotiate compensation upwards, either at the job offer phase or for raises once I'm in. It's always a "take it or leave it" offer and yea, I've chosen to leave it a few times. Recruiter: "Here's your offer for $X compensation." You: "I was actually looking for something paying $X+Y." Recruiter: "Well our offer is $X." You: "This data shows that comparab…

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