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The Steam Deck is software-freedom friendly

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Re: The Steam Deck is software-freedom friendly

#91

Post by keyringlight »

have_faith wrote: post #55
outcoldman wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What kills Deck for me are the game launchers.

For me it was the lack of portability (it's a chunky beast), I just wasn't taking it anywhere because it takes up so much space in your bag. By comparison the switch with it's disconnecting controllers fits in my electronics bag along with a bunch of plugs, chargers and cables and hardly takes up any room, and weighs a decent amount less. Looking forward to a slimmer and narrower V2 though, if it ever materialises.

My feeling is that deck v2 will only happen around the time of next generation consoles (PS6, etc) so they can piggy-back off the AMD APU made for it again. Getting a chip as a slight variation on a mass-market product is going to be a lot easier

Re: The Steam Deck is software-freedom friendly

#92

Post by ffsm8 »

TehCorwiz wrote: post #22

No company is your friend. But Valve does a great job at being consumer friendly. Steam is a great low-pressure sales environment. It provides features that make it more enjoyable for users to play, hang out, communicate, share content, mods. It doesn't harangue you or change your settings, or the UI, or your games (mostly) without reason and warning. Things work like you expect them to in other apps, back buttons wo…

> Just to add a gripe about Amazon. Their games app is so bad that if you use the back button on your mouse while a screenshot is open the page changes but the image stays until you close it.

That's more a critiques to how software development happens today. Its a consequence of decoupling the product ownership from the developer, who only implements what's required according to the ticket/feature requested by the PO.

To be clear, I'm not saying that passing full ownership of the software to the developers they've hired to be effectively code monkeys would work. And neither do I think that the approach of having the developers be the owners of the software "scales" (teams like that will always be small and have very little space for Jr. positions).

It's very illuminating if you look at the average developer salary at valve, they're just approaching software development differently then Amazon and Epic (and rest of the industry for that matter)

Re: The Steam Deck is software-freedom friendly

#93

Post by johnnyanmac »

protimewaster wrote: post #18
sneak wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not only is Steam not a monopoly, TFA mentions how it’s possible to easily install alternative app stores on the Steam Deck. It’s not just factually wrong to call them a monopoly, it’s uncharitable given that they are not engaging in anticompetitive practices despite being in a position (and arguably having the right) to do so.

> given that they are not engaging in anticompetitive practices Well, not quite. They did get sued for having "anticompetitive restraints on pricing" and "Federal Judge John C. Coughenour ruled that those claims were credible and that Steam gamers can claim compensation for Valve's illegal monopoly, but gamers, unlike developers, must file individual arbitrations to do so." (Their ToS wouldn't allow gamers to form a…

IIRC their big TOS clause they had you sign in October flipped it around. So I think now gamers can make a class action.

This was in defiance of the fact that some lawyers were arranging a mass arbitration lawsuit over this stuff. So Valve is flipping the table hoping to evade that.

Re: The Steam Deck is software-freedom friendly

#94

Post by Shacklz »

whytevuhuni wrote: post #3

They’re not saints, especially with the games distribution platform monopoly they’re sitting on top of, but... I really think Valve have become the de-facto owners of the “don’t be evil” motto nowadays, even if they don’t advertise themselves as such.

Unlike other corporations, they actually didn't really do all that much to make it a monopoly though. It's kind of an organic monopoly simply by being better than everything else, by a wide margin.

There's not much "lock-in" apart from the games one owns on the platform; and the social aspects of steam are mostly negligible or niche - sure there's the friendlist, but no gamer I know uses steam voice-chat so the friendlist is mostly replicated in discord and similar anyway.

Re: The Steam Deck is software-freedom friendly

#95

Post by TehCorwiz »

jerf wrote: post #47
TehCorwiz wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're misunderstanding the meaning of "Software freedom". It refers more to the process and transparency of the software than to the choice. That said, the Steam Deck is just a handheld PC. And Valve gives instructions on how to install Windows on it should you want to do that. https://help.steampowered.com/en/faqs/view/6121-ECCD-D643-BA... Often we talk about software freedom in the context of open-source d…

I'd also call out that Valve is probably running the biggest managed Linux install base in the world now. They manage the OS and update it. If you really want to get in there and root the thing, you can; you can install other OSes including Windows if you want, it's open, it just defaults to managed. And they made sure to integrate Flatpaks into their base OS image and the default image ships with the Flatpak market/…

You're knocking on Apple's door with that idea. Man, I'd love to see it.

Re: The Steam Deck is software-freedom friendly

#96

Post by haunter »

jerf wrote: post #57

I have a first-gen Switch, still in active rotation. My kids are asking me why we don't hack it. My answer has been, what does a hacked Switch do that my Steam Deck doesn't already do, without hacking? I mean, if you're going to sail the seven seas and yo-ho-ho, not that I've been encouraging that, the answer isn't even "Play Switch 1 games", the Steam Deck does that better too! And at least we can't accidentally hoo…

>the answer isn't even "Play Switch 1 games", the Steam Deck does that better too

What about motion control games like Switch Sports?

Re: The Steam Deck is software-freedom friendly

#97

Post by johnnyanmac »

cma wrote: post #43
forrestthewoods wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Note the use of ‘store’ here No. It’s an implicit rule. You don’t get to language lawyer. > One example is Factorio, that is cheaper on factorio.com Just checked, $35 on both. Valve would only allow a dev to sell a game on their website for a lower price so long as the game sales numbers were not a threat to Steam. If Factorio sold very less on its website and suddenly 90% of sales were direct Valve would not be pl…

Isn't that only true for selling steam keys, not the whole game? Bigger problem with the monopoly is less sales on steam means less visibility in steam's algorithm, so you get punished for having people buy off steam. Same if you want a video on your site: if you don't YouTube embed and instead host yourself, you get less amplified by youtube even if people want to watch it just as much. YouTube ends up getting to pl…

This is entirely what one of the major lawsuits is about. The official word age is that this is a clause for using steam keys. But internal emails shows there's definitely preferences even for non steam keygames to do this

https://galaxy.ai/youtube-summarizer/the-judges-ruling-a-maj...

>Initially, it was believed that this policy applied only to Steam keys, but the emails indicate a broader application, raising serious concerns about Valve's business practices.

Re: The Steam Deck is software-freedom friendly

#98

Post by butlike »

lawn wrote: post #49
tossandthrow wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My impression is that the general quality of games on steam is sub par the quality of, eg., Zelda. Even with a steam deck, I am probably going to get the Switch2, mostly because I can lower my head on in-game profiteering, which is increasingly prevalent on steam games.

> My impression is that the general quality of games on steam is sub par the quality of, eg., Zelda. An impossibly high bar given that the Zelda games are some of the most critically acclaimed games of all time.

It's not impossible... it happened once already, in 1986 with the release of Legend of Zelda 1. And it keeps happening with every new Nintendo console release where a new Zelda comes along.

You can absolutely make a game to the quality of Zelda as an indie developer.

Re: The Steam Deck is software-freedom friendly

#99

Post by mrighele »

whytevuhuni wrote: post #3

They’re not saints, especially with the games distribution platform monopoly they’re sitting on top of, but... I really think Valve have become the de-facto owners of the “don’t be evil” motto nowadays, even if they don’t advertise themselves as such.

> They’re not saints, especially with the games distribution platform monopoly they’re sitting on top of

They are a monopoly, but it doesn't look to me that they are taking particular advantage of the position. I buy mostly indie games, so I may be out of the loop, but what are they doing that makes them "not saints" ? (Expecially in relation to their market share)

Re: The Steam Deck is software-freedom friendly

#100

Post by [deleted] »

cma wrote: post #43
forrestthewoods wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Note the use of ‘store’ here No. It’s an implicit rule. You don’t get to language lawyer. > One example is Factorio, that is cheaper on factorio.com Just checked, $35 on both. Valve would only allow a dev to sell a game on their website for a lower price so long as the game sales numbers were not a threat to Steam. If Factorio sold very less on its website and suddenly 90% of sales were direct Valve would not be pl…

Isn't that only true for selling steam keys, not the whole game? Bigger problem with the monopoly is less sales on steam means less visibility in steam's algorithm, so you get punished for having people buy off steam. Same if you want a video on your site: if you don't YouTube embed and instead host yourself, you get less amplified by youtube even if people want to watch it just as much. YouTube ends up getting to pl…

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