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Move fast, break things: A review of Abundance by Ezra Klein and Derek Thompson

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Re: Move fast, break things: A review of Abundance by Ezra Klein and Derek Thompson

#91

Post by rayiner »

xnx wrote: post #54
davidw wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's a specific hearing that I attended where exactly that dynamic played out https://bendyimby.com/2024/04/16/the-hearing-and-the-housing... A room full of angry, wealthy, older people who showed up at 11AM on a weekday to stop homes for people who doubtless earn less than they do. And in that case, they were successful, sadly.

I'm conflicted. Who should be allowed to say what gets built in an area: the neighbors, the neighborhood, the city, the county, the state, the federal government?

Just the state.

Re: Move fast, break things: A review of Abundance by Ezra Klein and Derek Thompson

#92

Post by tptacek »

euroderf wrote: post #90
xnx wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm conflicted. Who should be allowed to say what gets built in an area: the neighbors, the neighborhood, the city, the county, the state, the federal government?

I thought zoning was supposed to provide predictability, stability. So if you buy a house in an area zoned for denser stuff, don't whine when a building starts to go up.

No, mostly what zoning was intended to do was to keep Black families (and, before that, Chinese families) out of white suburbs. The documentation on this point is extensive and convincing. That effect is less deliberate, overt, and intensive today than it was in, say, 1964. But "we've always done it this way" is a uniquely weak argument when it comes to single-family zoning.

(The problem, throughout most of America, is lack of multifamily zoning; it's not as much that people own single-family houses near multifamily lots, because their grandparents generally took care of that problem in the late 1940s when most major metro areas got rezoned to eliminate those multifamily lots).

Re: Move fast, break things: A review of Abundance by Ezra Klein and Derek Thompson

#93

Post by velcrovan »

tptacek wrote: post #48
velcrovan wrote: post #17

From another good review of the book: > “One of the personally amusing aspects of reading Abundance is that it kept reminding me of a two-hour discussion I had with Ezra Klein in 2019 about Medicare for All. […] In our discussion, Klein balked at making Medicare for All the centerpiece of a Democratic health care agenda because he thought it was not politically practical. […] At one point in the discussion, he asks h…

And I mean, again, here's the crux of the opposition Abundance gets from the left. The project of the Progressive movement is a decisive takeover of the state and national Democratic parties, which is what they'd need in order to get single payer, their signature policy, passed. The notion that there's an alternative long game for the Democrats to play, that instead of enacting a massive (and controversial) change to…

Except that Bruenig isn’t opposed to Abundance (neither am I). In the conclusion to the review he says the book is fine and that people who are upset about it are blowing things out of proportion. What quiet part is being said loud in this review, again?

Re: Move fast, break things: A review of Abundance by Ezra Klein and Derek Thompson

#94

Post by bryanlarsen »

jaypinho wrote: post #72
tptacek wrote: post #12

This is a downright weird review. The crux of the complaint against Klein's book is that it's about values and avoids specific policy prescriptions. The lack of those policy arguments leads the reviewer to question Klein's commitment. But there's nobody in all of American political discourse that complaint falls more flat on than Ezra Klein. The review draws a comparison between Abundance and Marc Andreesen's "Time T…

This is a weird response - that's not what the review says at all. (I should know. I wrote it.) I'm also a YIMBY - although, as a renter, it doesn't exactly take any moral courage. As I state clearly in the review, I share Klein and Thompson's view of the housing issue and I called that part the strongest section of the book. My point is that what the book calls "abundance" is an incoherent mishmash of ideologically…

> that's not what the review says at all. (I should know. I wrote it.)

tptacek's summary seems spot on to me. It may be not what you meant to say, but it's an accurate summary of how at least 2 readers are interpreting what you're saying. You can try and blame the readers if you wish, but we're not mind readers and can only go by the words you've written on the page and the context in which you've written them.

Re: Move fast, break things: A review of Abundance by Ezra Klein and Derek Thompson

#95

Post by dralley »

xnx wrote: post #64
dralley wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fine, 98% of the population would like to see increased economic development. The point is that you would be very hard pressed to find any issue in American politics less controversial. Degrowth is incredibly fringe. You wouldn't even get 10% at a Bernie Sanders rally to agree. Pointing to the unibomber is hardly a great way to prove the position is mainstream. I started with your latter point because it was just so…

Unintentionally, no modern administration may do more for degrowth than the current one.

Exactly

Re: Move fast, break things: A review of Abundance by Ezra Klein and Derek Thompson

#96

Post by hollerith »

ilrwbwrkhv wrote: post #62
hollerith wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Marc Andreessen who has never actually had a successful startup. He was a founder of Netscape. But maybe you meant for your statement to apply only to his career as a VC.

James Clark was the founder and the actual visionary. A lot of history has been rewritten about Marc Andreessen. Even most of the coding of the original Mosiac was done by Eric Bina.

Andreeson was also a Netscape founder. Andreeson was interesting in the web and involved in the development of a shipping web browser long before Clark got interested in the web and probably long before Clark even knew what the web was.

Clark however had money, connections and enterpreneurial and executive experience whereas Andreeson was just starting out in his career.

Re: Move fast, break things: A review of Abundance by Ezra Klein and Derek Thompson

#97

Post by xnx »

davidw wrote: post #67
xnx wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm conflicted. Who should be allowed to say what gets built in an area: the neighbors, the neighborhood, the city, the county, the state, the federal government?

The property owner, unless what's being built is really smelly, loud, or dangerous. With perhaps some carve outs if people want to voluntarily have some kind of HOA type thing that isn't publicly enforced. I think this take on it is pretty good: https://islandpress.org/books/arbitrary-lines

I agree that a property owner should be able to do what they want as long as excess noise, smells, or shadow doesn't leave their property. I wonder if zoning rules aren't just another form of HOA that people voluntarily opt into by moving to specific cities.

Re: Move fast, break things: A review of Abundance by Ezra Klein and Derek Thompson

#98

Post by vvpan »

decimalenough wrote: post #31
vvpan wrote: post #13

I've come to loath Mark Andreessen as just an out-of-date reactionary who cannot take it that culture around him has moved on. Apparently he is also big hypocrite: > Two years after Marc Andreessen published “It’s Time to Build,” The Atlantic’s Jerusalem Demsas uncovered that Andreessen’s town of Atherton, CA had planned to do just that — build multifamily homes! — but was met with ferocious opposition from, well, a…

Marc Andreessen also has nothing whatsoever to do with the book, except the reviewer's dubious assertion that it contains some of the "techno-utopianism of Marc Andreessen".

Well he wrote the techno positivist manifesto and is one of the biggest voices in "growth" domain.

Re: Move fast, break things: A review of Abundance by Ezra Klein and Derek Thompson

#99

Post by vvpan »

monkaiju wrote: post #66
vvpan wrote: post #21

Another review: https://thebaffler.com/latest/whats-the-matter-with-abundanc...

That's a phenomenal review! I really need to go read Solar Communism

I have not read it yet, I must admit, but I like Baffler and planning on subscribing. Thanks for reading and the feedback!

Re: Move fast, break things: A review of Abundance by Ezra Klein and Derek Thompson

#100

Post by HDThoreaun »

Really disagree with this author's take on robert moses. He is by far NYC's greatest hero. The abundance he created is now enjoyed by tens of millions of people every year, the poor and the wealthy. His singular vision is exactly the type of abundance this country needs. The pain brought onto a few by his plans was well worth the payoff.

The problem with Klein and Thompson's vision, as the author teases out, is that it is politically unpopular when you really dig into what theyre calling for. That's why theyre writing this book I suppose, to create support for their ideology.

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