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France fines Apple €150M for “excessive” pop-ups that let users reject tracking

arstechnica.com

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Re: France fines Apple €150M for “excessive” pop-ups that let users reject tracking

#91

Post by BeFlatXIII »

simion314 wrote: post #83
tedunangst wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do we have regulations? Who do they benefit?

>Why do we have regulations? Who do they benefit? Weird you still have no idea why. So let me tell you, there was a tribe in a village and they had many rules, some young boys hated the rules so they left and made their own village with no rules. One day one of them made a fire and let it unsupervised and many of their shacks burned so the boys decided that there should be one rule about not letting fires unsupervise…

That's some nice story, not relevant facts.

Re: France fines Apple €150M for “excessive” pop-ups that let users reject tracking

#92

Post by frumper »

abdullahkhalids wrote: post #51
duskwuff wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm not sure this is fixable? Not from Apple's end. Apple mandates that all requests for permissions go through a single, OS-provided dialog. If a user accepts, the permission is granted; if the user rejects, the permission is not granted, and the app can't ask again. Simple enough. App developers try to maximize their chances of getting that permission granted by adding another warm-up dialog before actually doing…

It's part of acceptable use by Apple [1], with guidelines how to show the first popup. [1] https://developer.apple.com/design/human-interface-guideline...

The link you posted is about not giving the user a choice. It's an optional pre alert screen that only leads to the system request. Apps are choosing to allow users to say no/cancel on that screen that then lets them ask again and again without wasting their one chance with the system prompt pop up.

Re: France fines Apple €150M for “excessive” pop-ups that let users reject tracking

#93

Post by BeFlatXIII »

refulgentis wrote: post #39
gruez wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's even the "double confirmation" that's required? 1. the ATT permission prompt from iOS 2. a prompt from the app itself ?

Yes

Then it's not a problem and France is just throwing some hissy fit.

Re: France fines Apple €150M for “excessive” pop-ups that let users reject tracking

#94

Post by kjreact »

the_clarence wrote: post #76

This is such a bizarre move from Apple honestly. They're acting like they're letting users make a choice when realistically all users are going to choose not to get tracked. It's like a "do you want to install malware?" button. They just did it for the lulz and to hurt the finances of companies they don't like.

Wow, do you work for these ad-tech companies? You’re totally correct that I don’t want to be tracked and I’m happy that Apple is trying to protect me from these predatory companies. If “hurt[ing] the finances” of these privacy invasive companies is your definition of “companies they don’t like” please sign me up. It’s a bizarre thing to say any one actually wants to be tracked.

Re: France fines Apple €150M for “excessive” pop-ups that let users reject tracking

#95

Post by frumper »

golli wrote: post #88
tedunangst wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm actually okay with the Apple Camera app asking me once and the Domino's Pizza app having to ask me twice. Who are the consumers being harmed here?

And if it weren't a dominos app, but an otherwise identical or better third party app? Which through this now has a disadvantage compared to Apples app. Making it worse (regardless of how small or large that downside is) compared to whatever Apple offers, not because of having the worse product in the category, but because Apple also happens to own the otherwise unrelated operating system.

Domino's doesn't have to ask twice. They're choosing to.

Re: France fines Apple €150M for “excessive” pop-ups that let users reject tracking

#97

Post by joshuaissac »

frumper wrote: post #95
golli wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And if it weren't a dominos app, but an otherwise identical or better third party app? Which through this now has a disadvantage compared to Apples app. Making it worse (regardless of how small or large that downside is) compared to whatever Apple offers, not because of having the worse product in the category, but because Apple also happens to own the otherwise unrelated operating system.

Domino's doesn't have to ask twice. They're choosing to.

> Domino's doesn't have to ask twice. They're choosing to.

According to the article, the French agency believes they would have to ask twice:

> Third-party publishers "cannot rely on the ATT framework to comply with their legal obligations," so they "must continue to use their own consent collection solution," the French agency said.

Re: France fines Apple €150M for “excessive” pop-ups that let users reject tracking

#98

Post by LorenPechtel »

burnte wrote: post #72
tedunangst wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm actually okay with the Apple Camera app asking me once and the Domino's Pizza app having to ask me twice. Who are the consumers being harmed here?

You might be ok with it, but the regulators want Apple to treat third parties the same way they treat their own apps, and that's a good thing. Either everyone would generate two prompts, or no one, but excluding yourself is just favoritism.

Yup, it's much, much better for the rules to be exactly the same than any debate about how much difference is permitted. No difference unless you can demonstrate a compelling reason for it.

Re: France fines Apple €150M for “excessive” pop-ups that let users reject tracking

#99

Post by st3fan »

tedunangst wrote: post #56
nottorp wrote: post #2

Actually Apple were fined because they don't apply the same standard to their own pop-ups that allow users to reject tracking. On Apple popups you seem to need one click, while on 3rd party popups you need to confirm twice. So the fine seems to be for treating 3rd parties differently from their own stuff. They could make their own popups require double confirmation instead...

I'm actually okay with the Apple Camera app asking me once and the Domino's Pizza app having to ask me twice. Who are the consumers being harmed here?

I don't think the Camera app asks for permission to use the Camera.

You could argue that choice is questionable because Apple needs to follow its own rules, but also .. it is the Camera app. I think if you don't want the Camera app to use the Camera you probably should not have opened the app at all.

ATT (App Tracking Transparency) is the dialog that says something like "Facebook would like permission to track you across apps and websites owned by other companies. Your data will be used to ... $AppProvidedExcuseHere." with "Allow Tracking" and "Ask App Not To Track" buttons.

ATT is the First consent.

The SECOND consent this case is about is the in-app consent that needs to happen according to French law. I can't give an example of that because I do not live in France but I assume this is probably some horribly designed page inside a French app that asks you to share your data with the ad surveilance industry.

Re: France fines Apple €150M for “excessive” pop-ups that let users reject tracking

#100

Post by st3fan »

arrosenberg wrote: post #62
tedunangst wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm actually okay with the Apple Camera app asking me once and the Domino's Pizza app having to ask me twice. Who are the consumers being harmed here?

It's anti-competitive. Apple owns the platform and is giving preference to it's own apps on that platform. Every non-Apple app that competes with an Apple app is harmed.

This is not what this case is about.
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