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Dutch Parliament: Time to ditch US tech for homegrown options

theregister.com

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Re: Dutch Parliament: Time to ditch US tech for homegrown options

#91
post #25

I have a goal to get rid of all US based software. I already replaced some services but I will continue to look every chance I get. This is the best thing to ever happen to EU based tech companies.

[flagged]

Because people that make an effort of announcing these things are all about virtual signaling.

Nothing they do ever has real substance to it.

Re: Dutch Parliament: Time to ditch US tech for homegrown options

#92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. The main reason we got in this mess is because the US is a better market for startups, simply because of the amount of available money, and the fact that it’s easier to start in a market with 340M people who speak the same language.

Also yes, because it's easier to start in a jurisdiction with sane laws and bearable tax burden, none of which is available in the EU. EU is indeed drowning in mind boggling bureaucracy. Source: am a startup in the EU.

"EU is indeed drowning in mind boggling bureaucracy."

Just look at how many software patents the EPO keeps printing.

Re: Dutch Parliament: Time to ditch US tech for homegrown options

#93

It always surprises me that people only act when a problem becomes undeniable, rather than preventing it in the first place. In a country with a voting system and power structure like US, where a single person can abruptly shift the entire nation's direction, this has always been a security flaw for others. It's the same as relying on Russian gas, people pretend the worst can't happen because it would be harmful to e…

[deleted]

Re: Dutch Parliament: Time to ditch US tech for homegrown options

#94

> Dutch MP Barbara Kathmann, author of four of the motions, told The Register. "If we continue outsourcing all of our digital infrastructure to billionaires that would rather escape Earth by building space rockets, there will be no Dutch expertise left." This kind of casual anti-technology attitude among European politicians is part of the reason we are in this mess.

No. The main reason we got in this mess is because the US is a better market for startups, simply because of the amount of available money, and the fact that it’s easier to start in a market with 340M people who speak the same language.

Israel is a small market and English fluency is worse than much of Western Europe (imo roughly comparable to France), yet they were able to crack the US market despite both being poorer than much of Western Europe until barely a couple years ago and having similar access to American markets.

And barely 20-25 years ago, Dutch firms like Philips NV and NXP Semi were both major players in the electronics and software industry, yet squandered their lead.

The issue is European leaders in both the private and public sector just don't care for technology, are overwhelmingly from legal and non-STEM financial/consulting backgrounds. The capital flight due to the Eurozone crisis also played a role, but Israel was also heavily impacted by that as well.

Re: Dutch Parliament: Time to ditch US tech for homegrown options

#95

Called it, again . Data sovereignty is the true trend of the next decade. Not Quantum, not AI, but the new multi-pole world order divesting from Americentric technologies and back into the sort of locally-grown economies that children of the Cold War would be familiar with. Local vendors serving local needs with a focus on regional, not global, scale and service. Us Cassandra types have been screaming for years that…

Would love to see a ditching of not just tech in favor of homegrown options.

I admit that I was initially on the globalization bandwagon, but in hindsight it resulted in products being made in countries with the cheapest costs which led to a decrease in quality and the destruction of smaller, more local businesses.

Go to a tourist area anywhere in the world and you'll be confronted by the same businesses--Starbucks, McDonald's, Apple Store, H&M, Zara. It's the homogenization and boringification of the world.

Re: Dutch Parliament: Time to ditch US tech for homegrown options

#96
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It and anything mildly questioning the morality of the current moves being made by popular VCs including YCombinator.

I have seen multiple comments on Hacker News suggesting that CEOs should be guillotined.

Could you link to two of them?

Re: Dutch Parliament: Time to ditch US tech for homegrown options

#97
This is simply the American empire in decline. Maybe with the ascendancy of China, we'll at least get trains.

This is what people need to understand about the current US administration: there's no grand plan. There's no deep strategy. The people in charge have absolutely no idea what they're doing. I'm not even sure if people at the top even know how tariffs work, like is the idea that foreign countries pay it just propaganda? I hope so. But do they believe it? I'm actually not sure.

It's just a bunch of Ayn Rand devotees who are out to destroy the government that made their wealth possible to begin with. to try and recreate a "traditional" society like the 1950s, just without the 91% top marginal rate of taxation that made prosperity possible. It's only when neoliberalism fully took hold in the 1970s did the standard of living start to decline and the wealth gap rise, just so the very wealthy can have just a little bit more wealth.

Gutting USAID says it all. That money mostly went to US firms, so they've lost that income, and the purpose was to project US soft power. Through organizations like NATO, the US used its military to get allies to do what they want and to buy US arms. Withdrawing F16 support to Ukraine, for example, completley undermines confidence in US arms.

The rush for US tech CEOs to kiss the ring and fall in line was always going to alienate other countries. They really are going to kill the golden goose.

Re: Dutch Parliament: Time to ditch US tech for homegrown options

#98

> Dutch MP Barbara Kathmann, author of four of the motions, told The Register. "If we continue outsourcing all of our digital infrastructure to billionaires that would rather escape Earth by building space rockets, there will be no Dutch expertise left." This kind of casual anti-technology attitude among European politicians is part of the reason we are in this mess.

I sincerely have no idea why mentioning the anti-technology stance of the EU always gets downvoted on HN. It's almost like people are confusing the contents of the comment with the comment itself, expressing their disdain for the legal burden of the EU by downvoting a comment mentioning that fact.

This phenomenon is commonplace on HN. It brings to mind the shrieking lady in this Monty Python: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M3-51DhOzHE

Re: Dutch Parliament: Time to ditch US tech for homegrown options

#99

Called it, again . Data sovereignty is the true trend of the next decade. Not Quantum, not AI, but the new multi-pole world order divesting from Americentric technologies and back into the sort of locally-grown economies that children of the Cold War would be familiar with. Local vendors serving local needs with a focus on regional, not global, scale and service. Us Cassandra types have been screaming for years that…

Maybe it's a blessing in disguise, yes. But I wrote up here [0] about how sad this makes me feel. We've squandered a huge opportunity this past 20 years by allowing BigTech to emerge and basically destroy the good political agenda of the original (D)ARPA project. Sure it was hegemonic. Sure we screwed up with things like "Arab Spring".

But I cannot stop feeling the Internet was the greatest tool of democracy and liberty - and we messed it up by allowing weak minded greedy and insecure types to take over.

It's no surprise that the latest brand of technofascist thugs targeted "data" as the new power-lever. "Flipping" carefully installed defective leaders is a new kind of threat and a new kind of attack we need to think about more in cybserscurity.

I don't think it needs us to be Cassandras for everyone to understand (vigilance is the essence of democracy) that if we want good, nice things, we'll have to actively work for them and defend daily. I'm also quietly optimistic that taking it back won't be such a big deal as we fear. We'll just have a lot of repair work to do when this sad episode is over. I think a Euro-centric rebuild will be a useful step towards a healed global vision again. One day.

[0] https://cybershow.uk/blog/posts/layer10/

Re: Dutch Parliament: Time to ditch US tech for homegrown options

#100
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A heads-up in case there's any confusion: Greenland is part of Denmark, whereas the Dutch Parliament is the parliament of the Netherlands. Both are part of the EU, of course (although Greenland isn't).

As a Dane I've always wondered why so many English speakers think "Dutch" goes with "Denmark" when "Danish" is what you're actually after.

It’s a similar thing with Switzerland and Sweden but even more confusing because the Netherlands doesn’t start with a D. It’s very rare in the English language for a country’s name to not be a part of its demonym. They also share common stereotypes in terms of being educated, North European welfare states. I read about geography quite a lot and I still often mix them up. Similarly, the difference between North and South Dakota is probably obvious to the people living there, but so far as the two of us know they are both exactly the same.
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