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In China, the rich and powerful can hire body doubles to do their prison time

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Re: In China, the rich and powerful can hire body doubles to do their prison time

#91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wells Fargo admits to 55,000 counts of perjury: http://www.reuters.com/article/2010/10/28/us-usa-foreclosure...

The word perjury does not appear on that page.

It does not, but in order to foreclose you state, under risk of perjury, that the details are right.

I've been following foreclosure stories for a while. The DAs are willfully asleep - hundreds of thousands of perjuries have been committed and documented, tens of thousands have been confirmed by the perjuring entity (as in this case), but the legal system is not interested in pursuing justice. Read Deninger's "The Market Ticker" or ZeroHedge for (almost daily) specific details.

Re: In China, the rich and powerful can hire body doubles to do their prison time

#92
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not enough! There's a recession, so the rich must be punished for it, due process or not! /sarcasm

People are not generally angry at "the rich," but rather the fat leaches on the govt and financial sectors. I've not heard anyone complaining about the self-made man.

> I've not heard anyone complaining about the self-made man.

Usually those are disguised as arguments that there are not actually any self-made men, but people who rode on their society.

Re: In China, the rich and powerful can hire body doubles to do their prison time

#93
post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok. I'm Canadian, so all US law blurs together to me (especially since in Canada, criminal law is under the sole jurisdiction of the federal government).

Most criminal prosecutions in the US happen at the state level.

Well, in Canada all criminal prosecutions happen at the provincial level -- the Federal government defines the criminal law, but the Provincial governments are responsible for the "administration of justice".

Which can make things interesting when the governments don't agree on whether something should be illegal or not...

Re: In China, the rich and powerful can hire body doubles to do their prison time

#94
post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most criminal prosecutions in the US happen at the state level.

Well, in Canada all criminal prosecutions happen at the provincial level -- the Federal government defines the criminal law, but the Provincial governments are responsible for the "administration of justice". Which can make things interesting when the governments don't agree on whether something should be illegal or not...

There is US Federal criminal law, and then there are the criminal laws of each of the 50 US States. Federal crimes are usually more serious (like espionage), but sometimes are just a matter of federal courts being the most appropriate venue (like copyright).

There are some standards that are widely applied across the states (like the MPC, some model jury instructions), and obviously the legal issues are very similar, but there are definitely major important differences between the states; for instance, groping a 17 year old in Alabama might be an aggravated sexual battery crime, but doing the same thing in Oregon might be a basic sexual assault.

Re: In China, the rich and powerful can hire body doubles to do their prison time

#95
post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The word perjury does not appear on that page.

It does not, but in order to foreclose you state, under risk of perjury, that the details are right. I've been following foreclosure stories for a while. The DAs are willfully asleep - hundreds of thousands of perjuries have been committed and documented, tens of thousands have been confirmed by the perjuring entity (as in this case), but the legal system is not interested in pursuing justice. Read Deninger's "The Ma…

Afai can recall, only a few DAs are fighting - the DA of NY being one of them.

Usually the DA's office goes tooth and nail after offenders, so there must be a reason, I presume.

Re: In China, the rich and powerful can hire body doubles to do their prison time

#96
Growing up in Dubai I witnessed a similar practice called 'blood money'.

Simply put, In the case of a car accident, The family of the victim can demand a fee, which would void any prosecution against the perp.

It's not ideal, but seems better than the chinese system. At least the victim's family gets something out of it.

Re: In China, the rich and powerful can hire body doubles to do their prison time

#97
post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The word perjury does not appear on that page.

It does not, but in order to foreclose you state, under risk of perjury, that the details are right. I've been following foreclosure stories for a while. The DAs are willfully asleep - hundreds of thousands of perjuries have been committed and documented, tens of thousands have been confirmed by the perjuring entity (as in this case), but the legal system is not interested in pursuing justice. Read Deninger's "The Ma…

Usually a perjury charge requires that you know the truth and tell a lie, knowingly and willingly. I'm not sure where negligence comes into it, but I think you'd have to prove WF knew their filings were wrong, as opposed to just careless. Also, it's rare to prosecute for perjury when the defendant volunteers the new version, as that would discourage past liars from ever coming forward with the truth.

In other news, I amended my tax return a few years ago. I do not generally refer to that event as the time I committed perjury.

Re: In China, the rich and powerful can hire body doubles to do their prison time

#98
post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It does not, but in order to foreclose you state, under risk of perjury, that the details are right. I've been following foreclosure stories for a while. The DAs are willfully asleep - hundreds of thousands of perjuries have been committed and documented, tens of thousands have been confirmed by the perjuring entity (as in this case), but the legal system is not interested in pursuing justice. Read Deninger's "The Ma…

Usually a perjury charge requires that you know the truth and tell a lie, knowingly and willingly. I'm not sure where negligence comes into it, but I think you'd have to prove WF knew their filings were wrong, as opposed to just careless. Also, it's rare to prosecute for perjury when the defendant volunteers the new version, as that would discourage past liars from ever coming forward with the truth. In other news, I…

> Usually a perjury charge requires that you know the truth and tell a lie, knowingly and willingly. I'm not sure where negligence comes into it, but I think you'd have to prove WF knew their filings were wrong, as opposed to just careless

Foreclosures are different, and for a good reason. One of the statements you make (similarly to DMCA takedowns) is something along the lines of "I have done my due diligence, and I assert under risk of perjury that the info contained below is correct."

If your bad foreclosure (or DMCA takedown) is taken to court, you should be able to prove that a mistake happened in spite of your due diligence.

Unlike amended taxes, or patent infringement, the results of an unjustified foreclosure might be fatal and essentially irrecoverable for the foreclosed party.

> Also, it's rare to prosecute for perjury when the defendant volunteers the new version, as that would discourage past liars from ever coming forward with the truth.

No truth was volunteered willingly here. They are challenged in court every day, and often shown to be fraudulent! After a lot of these, they went back to revise.

It is rare to prosecute when someone corrects themselves with a good excuse.

It is not rare to prosecute when someone admits perjury with no good explanation (and really, you should look into it, e.g. on Deninger's market ticker - the only explanation here is greed, which is not good enough). Unless you are a big bank.

> In other news, I amended my tax return a few years ago. I do not generally refer to that event as the time I committed perjury.

Perjury requires, as you stated, making a knowingly wrong statement. (Will does not enter the equation, only knowledge). If you knowingly filed a fraudulent tax return - then, yes, you have possibly committed perjury - but unless you are already on the IRS' sight, not much is likely to happen.

Re: In China, the rich and powerful can hire body doubles to do their prison time

#99
post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It does not, but in order to foreclose you state, under risk of perjury, that the details are right. I've been following foreclosure stories for a while. The DAs are willfully asleep - hundreds of thousands of perjuries have been committed and documented, tens of thousands have been confirmed by the perjuring entity (as in this case), but the legal system is not interested in pursuing justice. Read Deninger's "The Ma…

Afai can recall, only a few DAs are fighting - the DA of NY being one of them. Usually the DA's office goes tooth and nail after offenders, so there must be a reason, I presume.

Of course there's a reason. Regulation is deeply captured http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulatory_capture (reading this article and all the examples in it, some of them very recent, will be an eye opener if you are not familiar with them. Or cause you to put an SEP field over the whole thing because it looks too crazy to be true)

Re: In China, the rich and powerful can hire body doubles to do their prison time

#100
post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Chinese government has gotten on the bandwagon with its own publication of the US's human rights violations ( http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/china/2012-05/25/c_1316113... ). I found this humorous. I'm reminded of the Soviet counterpart to this. ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/And_you_are_lynching_Negroes )

(speaking from Russia) at the time of that argument, our propaganda guys did have a point: the poverty was defeated here, everyone had a job guarantee, an opportunity to get (free) world-class higher education, choose a career in science, military, or industry, etc. Speaking of China, they do have their problems (of course), but to have a moral right to criticize, other fellow countries should at least stop their oil…

I don't need to comment on US corruption, as I assume that most of you live in that country, and can easily read any book from Chomsky. Here's a little anecdote about Chinese and Russian corruption.

The mayors of the Russian city xxxsk in the Far East and its Chinese sister city xxxhui in the Heilongjiang province, get together once a year to discuss worldly affairs.

The mayor of xxxsk comes to visit the mayor of xxxhui, and find that the mayor of xxxhui is living in a luxury apartment, with a fine BMW in the garage, and even an "er nai" in an adjecent apartment. The mayor of xxxsk is impressed, and asks: "how are you, as a public servant, able to afford all this?" The xxxhui mayor gestures towards the floor to ceiling window of his pad, and responds proudly - "you see that factory complex - 800 million yuan (that was about 100 MM USD at the time I heard this joke) project, and I skimmed 10% of it".

The next sunmmer, the mayor of xxxhui visits xxxsk at the Russian mayor's dacha. The dacha was filled with resplendent decorations that would not be out of place in Odintsovo. There was a black Mercedes Benz in the garage, and several devki frolicking in the swimming pool. The Chinese mayor was duly impressed, and asked his Russian counterpart - "how are you able to afford all this?" The Russian mayor proudly gestures towards the woods - "you see that over there?" "No, I see only trees!", replies the Chinese mayor. "Well, that was supposed to be the eastern end of the new Trans-Siberian Highway - 3 billion rubles project, and I spizdel vse - took all of it."

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