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uv downloads overtake Poetry for Wagtail users

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Re: uv downloads overtake Poetry for Wagtail users

#91

Post by amelius »

matrss wrote: post #83
amelius wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But for example, if I install the Python package "shapely", it will need a C package named GEOS as a shared library. How do I ensure that the version of GEOS on my system is the one shapely wants? By trial and error? And how does that work with environments, where I have different versions of packages in different places? It sounds a bit messy to me, compared to a solution where everything is managed by a single pack…

That's what I mean, in this case pip, uv, etc. are the wrong tool to use. You could e.g. use pixi and install all python and non-python dependencies through that, the conda-forge package of shapely will pull in geos as a dependency. Pixi also interoperates with uv as a library to be able to combine PyPI and conda-forge packages using one tool. But conda-forge packages (just like PyPI packages, or anything that does i…

Indeed, I'd want something where I have more control over how the binaries are built. I had some segfaults with conda in the past, and couldn't find where the problem was until I rebuilt everything from scratch manually and the problems went away.

Nix/guix sound interesting. But one of my systems is an nVidia Jetson system, where I'm tied to the system's libc version (because of CUDA libraries etc.) and so building things is a bit trickier.

Re: uv downloads overtake Poetry for Wagtail users

#92

Post by imtringued »

amelius wrote: post #72
matrss wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMO if you require libraries in other languages then a pure python package manager like uv, pip, poetry, whatever, is simply the wrong tool for the job. There is _some_ support for this through wheels, and I'd expect uv to support them just as much as pip does, but they feel like a hack to me. Instead there is pixi, which is similar in concept to uv but for the conda-forge packaging ecosystem. Nix and guix are also l…

But for example, if I install the Python package "shapely", it will need a C package named GEOS as a shared library. How do I ensure that the version of GEOS on my system is the one shapely wants? By trial and error? And how does that work with environments, where I have different versions of packages in different places? It sounds a bit messy to me, compared to a solution where everything is managed by a single pack…

What exactly prevents you from creating your own packages if you want to use your system package manager?

On Alpine and Arch Linux? Exactly nothing.

On Debian/Ubuntu? maybe the convoluted packaging process, but that's on you for choosing those distributions.

Re: uv downloads overtake Poetry for Wagtail users

#93

Post by brokegrammer »

I switched from Poetry to uv last year. I like the speed and how it stores virtual envs in a .venv directory along with the project by default, whereas Poetry store it in a separate directory in your home directory by default, which makes it hard to work with tools that only discover virtual envs in the project root.

uv tool is also a great replacement for pipx.

I think it's the way to go for Python dependency management in 2025.

Re: uv downloads overtake Poetry for Wagtail users

#94

Post by dagw »

amelius wrote: post #54
heisig wrote: post #3

I recently switched to uv, and I cannot praise it enough. With uv, the Python ecosystem finally feels mature and polished rather than like a collection of brittle hacks. Kudos to the uv developers for creating such an amazing piece of software!

But how does it work with components that require libraries written in C? And what if there are no binaries yet for my architecture, will it compile them, including all the dependencies written in C?

UV is not (yet) a build system and does not get involved with compiling code. But easily lets you plug in any build system you want. So it will let you keep using whatever system you are currently using for building your C libraries. For example I use scikit-build-core for building all of my libraries C and C++ components with cmake and it works fine with uv.

Re: uv downloads overtake Poetry for Wagtail users

#95

Post by blooalien »

jonatron wrote: post #16
darkfloo wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a semi casual user of python that had to battle w/ dependency management recently, can you elaborate on why that would not be a good thing ? I thought about switching our project to uv but could not find the time necessary

You may be overestimating the amount of time it takes to switch to uv.

Took me all of about 10 seconds after I decided to switch from Poetry and PipX. Been just learning it bit by bit as I go along and been really pleased with it thus far.

Re: uv downloads overtake Poetry for Wagtail users

#96

Post by lucianbr »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #87
Etheryte wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This argument makes no sense. Your dependencies don't change unless you change them, npm doesn't magically update things underneath you. Things can break when you try to update one thing or another, yes, but if you just take an old project and try and run it, it will work.

Assuming the downloads still exist? Does NPM cache all versions it ever distributed? That's always one major thing I saw breaking old builds: old binaries stop being hosted, forcing you to rebuild them from old source, which no longer builds under current toolchains - making you either downgrade the toolchain that itself may be tricky to set up, or upgrade the library, which starts a cascade of dependency upgrades. I…

You're using a different, not hosted anymore package, three times a week? That's somewhere between very unusual and downright absurd.

Yes you can find edge cases with problems. Using this as an argument for "breaks 3 times per week" does not hold.

Re: uv downloads overtake Poetry for Wagtail users

#97

Post by qwertox »

the_mitsuhiko wrote: post #88
qwertox wrote: post #75

I've read so much positive feedback about uv, that I'd really like to use it, but I'm unsure if it fits my needs. I was heavily invested into virtualenv until I had to upgrade OS versions, which upgraded the Python versions and therefore broke the venvs. I tried to solve this by using pyenv, but the need of recompiling Python on every patch wasn't something which I would accept, specially in regards to boards like Ra…

I’m a bit confused why uv is not an option for you. You don’t need to compile Python, it manages virtualenvs for you, you can use them with Jupyter and vscode. What are you missing?

So the only difference is that Conda also isolates "system" libraries (like libcublasLt.so), or does uv also do this?

It's not that uv is not an option for me, I made this move to miniforge before uv was on my radar because it wasn't popular, but I'm still at a point where I'm not sure if uv can do what I need.

Re: uv downloads overtake Poetry for Wagtail users

#98

Post by datadeft »

qwertox wrote: post #75

I've read so much positive feedback about uv, that I'd really like to use it, but I'm unsure if it fits my needs. I was heavily invested into virtualenv until I had to upgrade OS versions, which upgraded the Python versions and therefore broke the venvs. I tried to solve this by using pyenv, but the need of recompiling Python on every patch wasn't something which I would accept, specially in regards to boards like Ra…

I have moved to uv few months back and never looked back. I use it with venv and it works very well. There is a new environment handling way with uv:

- uv init new-py-env

- cd new-py-env

- uv add jupyter

- uv build

These are executed super fast. Not sure if this could help your situation but it is worth to be aware of these.

Re: uv downloads overtake Poetry for Wagtail users

#99

Post by datadeft »

dagw wrote: post #94
amelius wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But how does it work with components that require libraries written in C? And what if there are no binaries yet for my architecture, will it compile them, including all the dependencies written in C?

UV is not (yet) a build system and does not get involved with compiling code. But easily lets you plug in any build system you want. So it will let you keep using whatever system you are currently using for building your C libraries. For example I use scikit-build-core for building all of my libraries C and C++ components with cmake and it works fine with uv.

    uv build
    Building source distribution...
    running egg_info
    writing venv.egg-info/PKG-INFO
    Successfully built dist/venv-0.1.0.tar.gz
    Successfully built dist/venv-0.1.0-py3-none-any.whl

Re: uv downloads overtake Poetry for Wagtail users

#100

Post by the_mitsuhiko »

qwertox wrote: post #97
the_mitsuhiko wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m a bit confused why uv is not an option for you. You don’t need to compile Python, it manages virtualenvs for you, you can use them with Jupyter and vscode. What are you missing?

So the only difference is that Conda also isolates "system" libraries (like libcublasLt.so), or does uv also do this? It's not that uv is not an option for me, I made this move to miniforge before uv was on my radar because it wasn't popular, but I'm still at a point where I'm not sure if uv can do what I need.

uv does not ship system libraries because pypi does not have them. There is a philosophical difference between pypi and conda today. I believe over time pypi will likely ship some system libraries but we will see.
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