Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Evidence that Neanderthal and Homo sapiens engaged in cultural exchange

phys.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

91–100 of 100 posts

Re: Evidence that Neanderthal and Homo sapiens engaged in cultural exchange

#91

Post by scotty79 »

pfannkuchen wrote: post #90
scotty79 wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's compared to other animals who fight a lot (for mates for example) but it rarely ends with death.

I’m reacting to the quality of the post’s inference on how humans would behave towards non-humans. Where the inference is: if they do this to their friends, imagine what they would do to their enemies. I’m arguing that the inference is invalid because other humans aren’t their friends, because the human system goes from kin :) to OUTSIDER pretty fast. I’m not aware of evidence that it intensifies beyond OUTSIDER, and…

> human system goes from kin :) to OUTSIDER pretty fast. I’m not aware of evidence that it intensifies beyond OUTSIDER,

Yeah, that sounds accurate.

> if anything I would imagine that it would diminish

Not sure what gives you that hope. People didn't really have diverse behaviors towards animals dependant on how human-like animals are.

Re: Evidence that Neanderthal and Homo sapiens engaged in cultural exchange

#92

Post by pfannkuchen »

scotty79 wrote: post #91
pfannkuchen wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m reacting to the quality of the post’s inference on how humans would behave towards non-humans. Where the inference is: if they do this to their friends, imagine what they would do to their enemies. I’m arguing that the inference is invalid because other humans aren’t their friends, because the human system goes from kin :) to OUTSIDER pretty fast. I’m not aware of evidence that it intensifies beyond OUTSIDER, and…

> human system goes from kin :) to OUTSIDER pretty fast. I’m not aware of evidence that it intensifies beyond OUTSIDER, Yeah, that sounds accurate. > if anything I would imagine that it would diminish Not sure what gives you that hope. People didn't really have diverse behaviors towards animals dependant on how human-like animals are.

> People didn't really have diverse behaviors towards animals dependant on how human-like animals are.

If they aren’t edible or dangerous we pretty much ignore them, no? Like they might be wiped out as collateral damage post industrialization, but I see that as an emergent side effect that no one cares to prevent, as opposed to a positivistic aspect of human nature.

Re: Evidence that Neanderthal and Homo sapiens engaged in cultural exchange

#93

Post by scotty79 »

pfannkuchen wrote: post #92
scotty79 wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> human system goes from kin :) to OUTSIDER pretty fast. I’m not aware of evidence that it intensifies beyond OUTSIDER, Yeah, that sounds accurate. > if anything I would imagine that it would diminish Not sure what gives you that hope. People didn't really have diverse behaviors towards animals dependant on how human-like animals are.

> People didn't really have diverse behaviors towards animals dependant on how human-like animals are. If they aren’t edible or dangerous we pretty much ignore them, no? Like they might be wiped out as collateral damage post industrialization, but I see that as an emergent side effect that no one cares to prevent, as opposed to a positivistic aspect of human nature.

Yeah, but all primates are edible. Humans ate a lot of humans in the past. As you say OUTSIDER is really not far away.

There's archeological evidence from Europe from around the invention of agriculture of communities hunting and eating people en masse.

Re: Evidence that Neanderthal and Homo sapiens engaged in cultural exchange

#94

Post by mobilejdral »

b800h wrote: post #45
kittikitti wrote: post #31

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41562-025-02110-y/figures/3 The link has images of some of the tools they found. Do you think we could teach a Neanderthal to code?

It's entirely possible that they were more intelligent in some ways than contemporary Homo Sapiens. How they were overwhelmed is open to question. Perhaps just numerically - they were adapted for cold environments and may have been less fecund.

3 of the 4 dna samples show signs of nonclassic CAH. This limited their reproduction abilities as 50% of babies would have CAH and die at birth until they integrated with proto-humans and had higher genetic diversity.

Re: Evidence that Neanderthal and Homo sapiens engaged in cultural exchange

#95

Post by cutemonster »

ljf wrote: post #47
cutemonster wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, we are more peaceful species now, than 40 000 years ago.

On what do you based that? (Genuinely interested)

As follows: The distribution of already existing traits, changes pretty fast (20-50 generations is fairly much) when the environment and evolutionary pressure changes.

And, large parts of the planet, haven't been invaded and the men killed, women raped, the last hundreds of years, in some places not even the last thousand years. Then, violent traits (reproducing by killing all men in the tribe nearby, raping the women) start fading away. (Not noticeable in a single lifetime though)

Re: Evidence that Neanderthal and Homo sapiens engaged in cultural exchange

#96

Post by cutemonster »

b800h wrote: post #62
cutemonster wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, we are more peaceful species now, than 40 000 years ago.

Perhaps all that Neanderthal DNA we assimilated changed us. Cold-adapted mammals tend to be more cooperative within their species.

> Cold-adapted mammals tend to be more cooperative within their species.

Interesting, what are you basing that on? (Is it an observation you've made or is there any research paper for example)

But the neanderthals, that was about 40 000 years ago they started disappearing. That's so much time, so any more kind or more brutal traits they might have had, wouldn't matter any more. Evolution is pretty fast, 20-50 generations is fairly much, when it comes to changing the distribution of traits that already exist, from what I've read (both our own species and other). And seen, actually, about humans.

Personally I believe all other great apes were roughly equally violent, just not as intelligent.

Re: Evidence that Neanderthal and Homo sapiens engaged in cultural exchange

#97

Post by HexPhantom »

Spooky23 wrote: post #71
HexPhantom wrote: post #50

It's incredible to think that instead of isolated evolutionary tracks, early human groups were exchanging ideas, tools, and even burial customs

Why? People are people. People have been people for 200k years. There’s a built in assumption in these sorts of stories that before the pyramids or whatever, everyone was running around like apes. Pounding their chests and each other. I’d say of course people communicated and helped each other out. There were far fewer of us, and for the most part they lived in a world of great abundance.

I agree that people have always been people, with the capacity for communication and cooperation.But still...

Re: Evidence that Neanderthal and Homo sapiens engaged in cultural exchange

#98

Post by HexPhantom »

yubblegum wrote: post #63
HexPhantom wrote: post #50

It's incredible to think that instead of isolated evolutionary tracks, early human groups were exchanging ideas, tools, and even burial customs

Iceman - 1984: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0087452/?ref_=fn_all_ttl_3 A surprisingly touching film about a frozen Neanderthal brought back to life. Have a feeling you'll like it.

Thanks for the recommendation! I hadn't heard of Iceman before, but it sounds like something I'd enjoy. I'll check it out!

Re: Evidence that Neanderthal and Homo sapiens engaged in cultural exchange

#99

Post by HexPhantom »

jajko wrote: post #55
HexPhantom wrote: post #50

It's incredible to think that instead of isolated evolutionary tracks, early human groups were exchanging ideas, tools, and even burial customs

Proto-religions probably too

Absolutely! Shared burial customs suggest shared beliefs about death and the afterlife
Post reply on HN