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What Bikini Atoll Looks Like Today (2017)

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Re: What Bikini Atoll Looks Like Today (2017)

#91

Post by ks1723 »

somishere wrote: post #66
celticninja wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As it turned out there was still a consideration of other people. For example if Nazi Germany got the bomb first then many more people would have been miserable. The greater good

The Marshall Islands tests were carried out after the end of WWII. It's worth considering that the US also used the islands as a dumping ground for waste from previous tests in the US [1] ... At a site which is now under threat of leaking due to the effects of climate change [2] [1] https://www.latimes.com/projects/marshall-islands-nuclear-te... [2] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Runit_Island

From the second wiki article:

“… the soil and the lagoon water surrounding the structure now contain a higher level of radioactivity than the debris of the dome itself, so even in the event of a total collapse, the radiation dose delivered to the local resident population or marine environment should not change significantly.”

This is just insane.

Re: What Bikini Atoll Looks Like Today (2017)

#92

Post by gregoriol »

wewewedxfgdf wrote: post #62

Imagine you lived literally in paradise on the most beautiful Pacific atoll - an utterly gorgeous place of peace and serenity and happiness. Literally heaven, surrounded by the most beautiful ocean, reefs and fish. Imagine then they turn up, round you up, take you off your island and send you somewhere else to live forever, taking your home from you. Then they nuke that island repeatedly so it can never be lived on a…

One's paradise is another one's nightmare

The place looks nice but there is not much there to make human life easy or nice: not much soil for agriculture or herds, not much shade, no fresh water, no resources to build anything, ...

Re: What Bikini Atoll Looks Like Today (2017)

#93

Post by eigenket »

prerok wrote: post #22
abound wrote: post #3

The note about using C-14 (introduced from nuclear blasts) to date the age of living cells is fascinating.

Sorry, say what? C-14 comes from exposure to radiation also from the sun. Dating by it would make no sense in recent history because it would be too hard. Am I missing something?

This graph [1] available on Wikipedia answers this question. The level of carbon 14 in the atmosphere (in the southern hemisphere) roughly doubled between 1955 and 1963 ish. This coincides with the era of above ground nuclear testing. Since then it has been decaying back to the baseline.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon-14#/media/File%3ARadioc...

Re: What Bikini Atoll Looks Like Today (2017)

#94

Post by kergonath »

petesergeant wrote: post #81
droopyEyelids wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Phrasing it that way makes me think of how the Scots were driven off their land to work in factories.

The Scots were driven off their land by other Scots, though. In addition, comparing subsistence agriculture in a land where you can freeze to death with the absolute abundance of food provided by a tropical island seems a stretch. Having spent considerable time in both the Scottish Highlands -- where my wider family is centered -- and having lived on a tropical island for a few years, it takes a particularly romantic…

> the absolute abundance of food provided by a tropical island

There is no absolute abundance of food on an atoll. There’s fish, coconuts and precious little ground for anything else to grow. It can be sustainable if the populations are very small, and then turn to hell quickly if they are not.

Re: What Bikini Atoll Looks Like Today (2017)

#96

Post by marliechiller »

celticninja wrote: post #64
cryptoegorophy wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When it comes to the most powerful weapon in the world special at that time There is little to none consideration for nature and people. Would you rather own the most powerful weapon and be the most powerful state or consider life’s of other people?

As it turned out there was still a consideration of other people. For example if Nazi Germany got the bomb first then many more people would have been miserable. The greater good

> The greater good

Arguably the lesser bad in this case!

Re: What Bikini Atoll Looks Like Today (2017)

#97

Post by antonvs »

cryptoegorophy wrote: post #60
somishere wrote: post #57

My wife is currently in the Marshall Islands commemorating an anniversary related to the nuclear testing. The trauma and fallout, cultural and nuclear, persists to this day - over 7 decades (and how many generations?) since the Bravo test. I've heard and read a lot about the atrocities visited upon the Marshallese in the name of research in the last six months. Including around the potential "intentionality" of the h…

When it comes to the most powerful weapon in the world special at that time There is little to none consideration for nature and people. Would you rather own the most powerful weapon and be the most powerful state or consider life’s of other people?

Just the fact that you ask that question as though it makes sense is an indictment.

The implication is that nothing matters more than being “most powerful”. What a sad, sad way to view life.

Re: What Bikini Atoll Looks Like Today (2017)

#98

Post by ashoeafoot »

forinti wrote: post #30
zenolijo wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I only personally know one person who had been an active member in Extinction Rebellion and I think it's a bit more nuanced than that. It seems like they all agree that the amount of growth we have today is unsustainable, but what sustainable growth exactly is and in turn how much growth needs to be compromised is not agreed upon. So I don't believe that endless pursuit of growth is against most of their members opin…

The Sustainable Development Index had Cuba and Equador as the sole sustainable economies in years past. There's no way we're going to convince the middle classes of the central economies to reduce consumption to that level, or even to convince people in that class of development economy to stop aiming for more.

You either convince them or the "security tax on walls, borders, etc." becomes a burden that ends it one way or another. One does not get a choice on the flavor of situationalphysics.

Re: What Bikini Atoll Looks Like Today (2017)

#99

Post by rad_gruchalski »

antonvs wrote: post #97
cryptoegorophy wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When it comes to the most powerful weapon in the world special at that time There is little to none consideration for nature and people. Would you rather own the most powerful weapon and be the most powerful state or consider life’s of other people?

Just the fact that you ask that question as though it makes sense is an indictment. The implication is that nothing matters more than being “most powerful”. What a sad, sad way to view life.

> What a sad, sad way to view life.

It’s sad until one realises that this is what human nature is. It’s “us” or “them” regardless of how much we all wanted that it wasn’t so.

Re: What Bikini Atoll Looks Like Today (2017)

#100

Post by prerok »

eigenket wrote: post #93
prerok wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, say what? C-14 comes from exposure to radiation also from the sun. Dating by it would make no sense in recent history because it would be too hard. Am I missing something?

This graph [1] available on Wikipedia answers this question. The level of carbon 14 in the atmosphere (in the southern hemisphere) roughly doubled between 1955 and 1963 ish. This coincides with the era of above ground nuclear testing. Since then it has been decaying back to the baseline. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon-14#/media/File%3ARadioc...

Indeed, I may have misread the GP comment, understanding that it stated that C-14 appeared because of the nuclear tests. They may have meant the addition. I did try to correct my mistake by answering my own question...
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